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CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
Here is the BAP opinion.
Susana B. Tolchard
"Hale Andrew Antico, Esq." wrote:
Enclosed is the bankruptcy judge's opinion which went up on appeal. The BAP opinion is not on Lexis yet.
2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480, *
In re WARREN WYATT WIEGAND, and CAMILLE ANITA WIEGAND, Debtors.
Case No. 07-60620-13
UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MONTANA
2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480
October 9, 2007, Decided
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:53 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
Wiegand, 2008 DJDAR 6175 (BAP 9th 4/30/08).
BAP holds that, despite official form B22C, business expenses may not be deducted above the line, thereby sending most self-employed debtors into 5 year chapter 13 plans.
Law Office of Eric Alan Mitnick
21515 Hawthorne Boulevard, Suite 1080
Torrance, CA 90503
(310) 792-5864; 792-5866 (fax)
MitnickLaw@aol.com
Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.
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Here is the BAP opinion. Susana B. Tolchard"Hale Andrew Antico, Esq." <bk.lawyer@gmail.com> wrote: Enclosed is the bankruptcy judge's opinion which went up on appeal. The BAP opinion is not on Lexis yet. 2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480, * In re
WARREN WYATT WIEGAND, and CAMILLE ANITA WIEGAND, Debtors. Case No. 07-60620-13 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MONTANA 2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480 October 9, 2007, Decided From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mitnicklaw@aol.comSent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:53 AMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed Wiegand, 2008 DJDAR 6175 (BAP 9th 4/30/08). BAP holds that, despite official form B22C,
business expenses may not be deducted above the line, thereby sending most self-employed debtors into 5 year chapter 13 plans. Law Office of Eric Alan Mitnick21515 Hawthorne Boulevard, Suite 1080Torrance, CA 90503(310) 792-5864; 792-5866 (fax)MitnickLaw@aol.comAlthough this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I have been forming corporations for sole proprietor clients before
commencement of Chapter 13 cases for many years, having the
corporation issue paychecks to the client to establish regular income
and also controlling the payment of payroll taxes and withholding
sufficient taxes so that clients do not get into post petition tax
issues. The client does not make an S-Corp election so that there is
no pass through of income and expenses, and the corporate tax return
is not included as a K-1 as part of the individual return that is
required to be provided to the Chapter 13 annually. If the
corporation is profitable, working with an accountant, we have a
retirement set up, along with other perquisites, leaving only
sufficient income to pay the regular income to service the Chapter 13.
It takes planning and also knowledge of how to set up and represent a
corporate start up.
Best regards. Lou Esbin
>
> This logic/holding certain makes establishing an LLC or Corporation
and taking a paycheck rather than operating as a sole proprietor the
best move for a small businessman.
>
> IMHO?
>
> "James T. King" wrote:
> Available but still forced to be in a chapter 13 plan
for 5 years when everyone else whose adjusted gross income is below
median income must only commit to 36 months. Again the small
businessman is put to task for trying to eak out a living. IMHO
>
On Behalf Of Erik Clark
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:08 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
>
>
>
> I just want to make sure you get to deduct the expenses
somewhere so we do not end up with an absurd result that would
basically make CH 13 unavailable for self employed debtors.
>
> M. Erik Clark
> Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
> 100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
> West Covina, CA 91791
> www.blclaw.com
> Office: (626) 332-8600
> Fax: (626) 332-8644
> Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
> American Board of Certification
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
Behalf Of P L
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:45 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
>
>
> Perhaps the holding is that CMI (detrmining ACP) is based
upon gross revenue, but DI and PDI is calculated from gross income
less expenses. This would mean virtually all Chapter 13 debtors would
be deemed ACP 5 years, since they would not have the benefit of
deducting their business expenses before determining CMI.
>
> Erik Clark wrote:
> "The Court will follow the liongstanding definitions of
"income" and of "adjusted gross income" permitting debtors to deduct
basis and allowable ordinary and necessary business expenses under the
IRC as though they were preparing their Form 1040"
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> M. Erik Clark
> Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
> 100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
> West Covina, CA 91791
>
> www.blclaw.com
> Office: (626) 332-8600
> Fax: (626) 332-8644
> Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
> American Board of Certification
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
Behalf Of Hale Andrew Antico, Esq.
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:12 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: FW: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
>
>
> Enclosed is the bankruptcy judge's opinion which went up
on appeal. The BAP opinion is not on Lexis yet.
>
> 2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480, *
>
> In re WARREN WYATT WIEGAND, and CAMILLE ANITA WIEGAND, Debtors.
>
>
> Case No. 07-60620-13
>
>
> UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MONTANA
>
>
> 2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480
>
>
> October 9, 2007, Decided
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
Behalf Of mitnicklaw@...
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:53 AM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
>
> Wiegand, 2008 DJDAR 6175 (BAP 9th 4/30/08).
>
>
> BAP holds that, despite official form B22C, business expenses
may not be deducted above the line, thereby sending most self-employed
debtors into 5 year chapter 13 plans.
>
>
> Law Office of Eric Alan Mitnick
> 21515 Hawthorne Boulevard, Suite 1080
> Torrance, CA 90503
> (310) 792-5864; 792-5866 (fax)
> MitnickLaw@...
>
> Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of
any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into
which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the
recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is
accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from
its use.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
This logic/holding certain makes establishing an LLC or Corporation and taking a paycheck rather than operating as a sole proprietor the best move for a small businessman.
IMHO?
"James T. King" wrote:
Available but still forced to be in a chapter 13 plan for 5 years when everyone else whose adjusted gross income is below median income must only commit to 36 months. Again the small businessman is put to task for trying to eak out a living. IMHO
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:08 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
I just want to make sure you get to deduct the expenses somewhere so we do not end up with an absurd result that would basically make CH 13 unavailable for self employed debtors.
M. Erik Clark
Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.blclaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:45 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
Perhaps the holding is that CMI (detrmining ACP) is based upon gross revenue, but DI and PDI is calculated from gross income less expenses. This would mean virtually all Chapter 13 debtors would be deemed ACP = 5 years, since they would not have the benefit of deducting their business expenses before determining CMI.
Erik Clark wrote:
The Court will follow the liongstanding definitions of income and of adjusted gross income permitting debtors to deduct basis and allowable ordinary and necessary business expenses under the IRC as though they were preparing their Form 1040
Am I missing something?
M. Erik Clark
Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.blclaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:12 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: FW: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
Enclosed is the bankruptcy judge's opinion which went up on appeal. The BAP opinion is not on Lexis yet.
2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480, *
In re WARREN WYATT WIEGAND, and CAMILLE ANITA WIEGAND, Debtors.
Case No. 07-60620-13
UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MONTANA
2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480
October 9, 2007, Decided
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:53 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
Wiegand, 2008 DJDAR 6175 (BAP 9th 4/30/08).
BAP holds that, despite official form B22C, business expenses may not be deducted above the line, thereby sending most self-employed debtors into 5 year chapter 13 plans.
Law Office of Eric Alan Mitnick
21515 Hawthorne Boulevard, Suite 1080
Torrance, CA 90503
(310) 792-5864; 792-5866 (fax)
MitnickLaw@aol.com
Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Available but still forced to be in a chapter 13 plan for 5 years when
everyone else whose adjusted gross income is below median income must
only commit to 36 months. Again the small businessman is put to task
for trying to eak out a living. IMHO
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="US-ASCII"
I just want to make sure you get to deduct the expenses somewhere so we
do not end up with an absurd result that would basically make CH 13
unavailable for self employed debtors.
M. Erik Clark
Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.blclaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
________________________________
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Perhaps the holding is that CMI (detrmining ACP) is based upon gross revenue, but DI and PDI is calculated from gross income less expenses. This would mean virtually all Chapter 13 debtors would be deemed ACP = 5 years, since they would not have the benefit of deducting their business expenses before determining CMI.
Erik Clark wrote: The Court will follow the liongstanding definitions of income and of adjusted gross income permitting debtors to deduct basis and allowable ordinary and necessary business expenses under the IRC as though they were preparing their Form 1040
Am I missing something?
M. Erik Clark
Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.blclaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:12 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: FW: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
Enclosed is the bankruptcy judge's opinion which went up on appeal. The BAP opinion is not on Lexis yet.
2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480, *
In re WARREN WYATT WIEGAND, and CAMILLE ANITA WIEGAND, Debtors.
Case No. 07-60620-13
UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MONTANA
2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480
October 9, 2007, Decided
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:53 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
Wiegand, 2008 DJDAR 6175 (BAP 9th 4/30/08).
BAP holds that, despite official form B22C, business expenses may not be deducted above the line, thereby sending most self-employed debtors into 5 year chapter 13 plans.
Law Office of Eric Alan Mitnick
21515 Hawthorne Boulevard, Suite 1080
Torrance, CA 90503
(310) 792-5864; 792-5866 (fax)
MitnickLaw@aol.com
Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Perhaps the holding is that CMI (detrmining ACP) is based upon gross revenue, but DI and PDI is calculated from gross income less expenses. This would mean virtually all Chapter 13 debtors would be deemed ACP = 5 years, since they would not have the benefit of deducting their business expenses before determining CMI.Erik Clark <eclark@blclaw.com> wrote: The Court will follow
the liongstanding definitions of income and of adjusted gross income permitting debtors to deduct basis and allowable ordinary and necessary business expenses under the IRC as though they were preparing their Form 1040 Am I missing something? M. Erik ClarkBorowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250West Covina, CA 91791 www.blclaw.comOffice: (626) 332-8600Fax: (626) 332-8644Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy American Board of Certification From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Hale Andrew Antico, Esq.Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:12 PMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: FW: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed Enclosed is the bankruptcy judge's opinion which went up on appeal. The BAP opinion is not on Lexis yet. 2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480, * In re WARREN WYATT WIEGAND, and CAMILLE ANITA WIEGAND, Debtors. Case No. 07-60620-13 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MONTANA 2007 Bankr. LEXIS 3480 October 9, 2007, Decided From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mitnicklaw@aol.comSent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:53 AMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed Wiegand, 2008 DJDAR 6175 (BAP 9th 4/30/08). BAP holds that, despite official form B22C, business expenses may not be deducted above the line, thereby sending most self-employed debtors into 5 year chapter 13 plans. Law Office of Eric Alan Mitnick21515 Hawthorne
Boulevard, Suite 1080Torrance, CA 90503(310) 792-5864; 792-5866 (fax)MitnickLaw@aol.comAlthough this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="US-ASCII"
"The Court will follow the liongstanding definitions of "income" and of
"adjusted gross income" permitting debtors to deduct basis and allowable
ordinary and necessary business expenses under the IRC as though they
were preparing their Form 1040..."
Am I missing something?
M. Erik Clark
Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.blclaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
________________________________
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Yea, no dessert for the BAP Panel until they reverse their opinion.
----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
That's weird. The BAP website doesn't even have that case. But, I totally agree with Mark. I went to the website to see where the case started and who the judges were. Good topic for discussion at the BAP dinner?
mitnicklaw@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:53 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] CMI and the unfortunate self-employed
Wiegand, 2008 DJDAR 6175 (BAP 9th 4/30/08).
BAP holds that, despite official form B22C, business expenses may not be deducted above the line, thereby sending most self-employed debtors into 5 year chapter 13 plans.
Law Office of Eric Alan Mitnick
21515 Hawthorne Boulevard, Suite 1080
Torrance, CA 90503
(310) 792-5864; 792-5866 (fax)
MitnickLaw@aol.com
Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
That's weird. The BAP website doesn't even have that case. But, I
totally agree with Mark. I went to the website to see where the case
started and who the judges were. Good topic for discussion at the BAP
dinner?
The post was migrated from Yahoo.