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Taxes: How to get Trustee disbursements applied first to pri...
Please be advised it says "payments received".
In a message dated 6/26/2010 6:45:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bklawr@yahoo.com writes:
But that's how it gets DISBURSED...But that's how it gets
DISBURSED...not how Or are you saying I can argue based on the bankruptcy code that
the payment the Trustee made was for secured or priority and, therefore,
must be applied as such?
Maybe I'm missing something here.
On 6/26/2010 6:23 PM, _robert90701@robert9_ (mailto:robert90701@aol.com) wrote:
Payments received through the bankruptcy proceeding are applied as followsFirst to liabilities listed as secured; Then to unsecured priority; and
Lastly, to the claim's unsecured general class unless 1) a court order 2)confirmed plan states to contrary or
3) in governments best interest to do otherwise.
Disclaimer
Although the above response is believed to be accurate, it should not be
relied upon as any type of legal advice. It is intended to educate the
reader and a more definite answer should be based on a consultation with alawyer. No attorney client relation is formed with me without a writtencontract.
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan.
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
Attorney
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, ,
562-924-8922
Former financial auditor and controller. Admitted to US Tax Court, IncomeTax, Bankruptcy, IRS representation, Fiduciary income tax returns, Estateand Gift tax returns
In a message dated 6/26/2010 5:10:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
_bklawr@yahoo.bkl_ (mailto:bklawr@yahoo.com) writes:
Thanks, Jeff. I don't see how that would help. I can get the Trustee to"designate" if that would help. But I think Dennis said that even if I can
get the Trustee to specify what it is being paid for, then that won't
result in the IRS applying it the way we want. Sounds like this is purely up
to the IRS, unless anyone has different experience.
On 6/26/2010 3:17 PM, Jeffery B Smith wrote:
Mark:
Would it help, since you are filing the claims, to file separate claims
for each category? Identify the secured claims and file a POC that explains
the basis for the secured status. Then file a POC for the unsecured
priority claims, if there are some that exceed the collateral, and take the time
to explain the basis of that designation. If anything is left, file a
third POC designating the balance as unsecured, non-priority claims. Whenthe Trustee goes to pay claims he will list them as such on his final report,
which must be approved by the court and, if I recall, the COURT issues anORDER approving the distribution, by claim. After the case is closed, youand I both know that the IRS will claim to have applied the payments someother way, and claim the taxes that were paid were the unsecured
non-priority taxes. So, the IRS will move later (post-discharge) to levy or garnish.
THEN, you have to re-open the case, and ask for an injunction. But you will get it if the final report and order are clear. I hope you have a good
trustee who appreciates you bringing him/her an asset case, and
cooperating with the administration of that case. If you work with, and not against
the trustee, and explain what you want to accomplish, my experience is that
they will help you by making the final report VERY clear about what is
being paid for what.
The key to this is that you said YOU will file the claims for the IRS. Its gonna get tricky if the IRS files their own claims later. Then you might
have to object to their claims to make sure they have correctly
categorized each claim as secured/unsecured, and then priority/non priority. Very
tricky, but I think you can do it. Good luck! P.S. Had fun on the courseat the tourney with you a few weeks ago!
-Jeffrey B. Smith**
CURD, GALINDO & SMITH, L.L.P.
301 East Ocean Blvd. #1700
Long Beach, ,
(562) 624-1177
(562) 624-1178 fax
(310) 993-6560 cellular
_www.expertbk.www_ (http://www.expertbk.com/)
**Certified By The State Bar
Of Of As A Specialist
In Bankruptcy Law
Please be advised it says "payments received".
In a message dated 6/26/2010 6:45:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bklawr@yahoo.com writes:
But that's how it gets DISBURSED...not how the creditor has to
apply it, right? Or are you saying I can argue based on the bankruptcy
code that the payment the Trustee made was for secured or priority and,
therefore, must be applied as such?Maybe I'm missing something
here.On 6/26/2010 6:23 PM, robert90701@aol.com wrote:
Payments received through the bankruptcy proceeding
are applied as follows First to liabilities listed as secured; Then to unsecured priority; and Lastly, to the claim's unsecured general class unless 1) a court order 2)confirmed plan states to
contrary or
3) in governments best interest to do
otherwise.
Although the above response is believed to
be accurate, it should not be relied upon as any type of legal
advice. It is intended to educate the reader and a more
definite answer should be based on a consultation with a lawyer.
No attorney client relation is formed with me without a written
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Yes, it is from the IRS Manual on bankruptcy.
In a message dated 6/26/2010 6:53:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
easky1@yahoo.com writes:
In my experience, the IRS applies payments to the oldest (dischargeable) liability. Because their liens survive bk, it is in their best interest to
apply payments to dischargeable debts.
Robert, do you have some authority for your statement? If you do I'd liketo read it.
Dennis McGoldrick
350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B
Torrance, CA 90503
On Jun 26, 2010, at 6:23 PM, _robert90701@robert9_
(mailto:robert90701@aol.com) wrote:
Payments received through the bankruptcy proceeding are applied as followsFirst to liabilities listed as secured; Then to unsecured priority; and
Lastly, to the claim's unsecured general class unless 1) a court order 2)confirmed plan states to contrary or
3) in governments best interest to do otherwise.
Disclaimer
Although the above response is believed to be accurate, it should not be
relied upon as any type of legal advice. It is intended to educate the
reader and a more definite answer should be based on a consultation with alawyer. No attorney client relation is formed with me without a writtencontract.
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan.
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
Attorney
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, ,
562-924-8922
Former financial auditor and controller. Admitted to US Tax Court, IncomeTax, Bankruptcy, IRS representation, Fiduciary income tax returns, Estateand Gift tax returns
In a message dated 6/26/2010 5:10:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bklawr@yahoo.In a messag
Thanks, Jeff. I don't see how that would help. I can get the Trustee to"designate" if that would help. But I think Dennis said that even if I can
get the Trustee to specify what it is being paid for, then that won't
result in the IRS applying it the way we want. Sounds like this is purely up
to the IRS, unless anyone has different experience.
On 6/26/2010 3:17 PM, Jeffery B Smith wrote:
Mark:
Would it help, since you are filing the claims, to file separate claims
for each category? Identify the secured claims and file a POC that explains
the basis for the secured status. Then file a POC for the unsecured
priority claims, if there are some that exceed the collateral, and take the time
to explain the basis of that designation. If anything is left, file a
third POC designating the balance as unsecured, non-priority claims. Whenthe Trustee goes to pay claims he will list them as such on his final report,
which must be approved by the court and, if I recall, the COURT issues anORDER approving the distribution, by claim. After the case is closed, youand I both know that the IRS will claim to have applied the payments someother way, and claim the taxes that were paid were the unsecured
non-priority taxes. So, the IRS will move later (post-discharge) to levy or garnish.
THEN, you have to re-open the case, and ask for an injunction. But you will get it if the final report and order are clear. I hope you have a good
trustee who appreciates you bringing him/her an asset case, and
cooperating with the administration of that case. If you work with, and not against
the trustee, and explain what you want to accomplish, my experience is that
they will help you by making the final report VERY clear about what is
being paid for what.
The key to this is that you said YOU will file the claims for the IRS. Its gonna get tricky if the IRS files their own claims later. Then you might
have to object to their claims to make sure they have correctly
categorized each claim as secured/unsecured, and then priority/non priority. Very
tricky, but I think you can do it. Good luck! P.S. Had fun on the courseat the tourney with you a few weeks ago!
-Jeffrey B. Smith**
CURD, GALINDO & SMITH, L.L.P.
301 East Ocean Blvd. #1700
Long Beach, ,
(562) 624-1177
(562) 624-1178 fax
(310) 993-6560 cellular
_www.expertbk.www_ (http://www.expertbk.com/)
**Certified By The State Bar
Of Of As A Specialist
In Bankruptcy Law
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The post was migrated from Yahoo.
In my experience, the IRS applies payments to the oldest (dischargeable) liability. Because their liens survive bk, it is in their best interest to apply payments to dischargeable debts.
Robert, do you have some authority for your statement? If you do I'd like to read it.
Dennis McGoldrick
350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B
Torrance, CA 90503
On Jun 26, 2010, at 6:23 PM, robert90701@aol.com wrote:
Payments received through the bankruptcy proceeding are applied as follows First to liabilities listed as secured; Then to unsecured priority; and Lastly, to the claim's unsecured general class unless 1) a court order 2)confirmed plan states to contrary or
3) in governments best interest to do otherwise.
Disclaimer
Although the above response is believed to be accurate, it should not be relied upon as any type of legal advice. It is intended to educate the reader and a more definite answer should be based on a consultation with a lawyer. No attorney client relation is formed with me without a written contract.
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan.
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
Attorney
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
Former financial auditor and controller. Admitted to US Tax Court, Income Tax, Bankruptcy, IRS representation, Fiduciary income tax returns, Estate and Gift tax returns
In a message dated 6/26/2010 5:10:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bklawr@yahoo.com writes:
Thanks, Jeff. I don't see how that would help. I can get the Trustee to "designate" if that would help. But I think Dennis said that even if I can get the Trustee to specify what it is being paid for, then that won't result in the IRS applying it the way we want. Sounds like this is purely up to the IRS, unless anyone has different experience.
On 6/26/2010 3:17 PM, Jeffery B Smith wrote:
Mark:
Would it help, since you are filing the claims, to file separate claims for each category? Identify the secured claims and file a POC that explains the basis for the secured status. Then file a POC for the unsecured priority claims, if there are some that exceed the collateral, and take the time to explain the basis of that designation. If anything is left, file a third POC designating the balance as unsecured, non-priority claims. When the Trustee goes to pay claims he will list them as such on his final report, which must be approved by the court and, if I recall, the COURT issues an ORDER approving the distribution, by claim. After the case is closed, you and I both know that the IRS will claim to have applied the payments some other way, and claim the taxes that were paid were the unsecured non-priority taxes. So, the IRS will move later (post-discharge) to levy or garnish. THEN, you have to re-open the case, and ask for an injunction.
But you will get it if the final report and order are clear. I hope you have a good trustee who appreciates you bringing him/her an asset case, and cooperating with the administration of that case. If you work with, and not against the trustee, and explain what you want to accomplish, my experience is that they will help you by making the final report VERY clear about what is being paid for what.
The key to this is that you said YOU will file the claims for the IRS. Its gonna get tricky if the IRS files their own claims later. Then you might have to object to their claims to make sure they have correctly categorized each claim as secured/unsecured, and then priority/non priority. Very tricky, but I think you can do it. Good luck! P.S. Had fun on the course at the tourney with you a few weeks ago!
-Jeffrey B. Smith**
CURD, GALINDO & SMITH, L.L.P.
301 East Ocean Blvd. #1700
Long Beach, CA 90802
(562) 624-1177
(562) 624-1178 fax
(310) 993-6560 cellular
www.expertbk.com
**Certified By The State Bar
Of California As A Specialist
In Bankruptcy Law
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The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Payments received through the bankruptcy proceeding are applied as followsFirst to liabilities listed as secured; Then to unsecured priority; and
Lastly, to the claim's unsecured general class unless 1) a court order 2)confirmed plan states to contrary or
3) in governments best interest to do otherwise.
Disclaimer
Although the above response is believed to be accurate, it should not be
relied upon as any type of legal advice. It is intended to educate the
reader and a more definite answer should be based on a consultation with a lawyer. No attorney client relation is formed with me without a writtencontract.
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan.
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
Attorney
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
Former financial auditor and controller. Admitted to US Tax Court, IncomeTax, Bankruptcy, IRS representation, Fiduciary income tax returns, Estateand Gift tax returns
In a message dated 6/26/2010 5:10:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bklawr@yahoo.com writes:
Thanks, Jeff. I don't see how that would help. I can get the Trustee to"designate" if that would help. But I think Dennis said that even if I can
get the Trustee to specify what it is being paid for, then that won't
result in the IRS applying it the way we want. Sounds like this is purely up
to the IRS, unless anyone has different experience.
On 6/26/2010 3:17 PM, Jeffery B Smith wrote:
Mark:
Would it help, since you are filing the claims, to file separate claims
for each category? Identify the secured claims and file a POC that explains
the basis for the secured status. Then file a POC for the unsecured
priority claims, if there are some that exceed the collateral, and take the time
to explain the basis of that designation. If anything is left, file a
third POC designating the balance as unsecured, non-priority claims. When the
Trustee goes to pay claims he will list them as such on his final report,which must be approved by the court and, if I recall, the COURT issues anORDER approving the distribution, by claim. After the case is closed, youand I both know that the IRS will claim to have applied the payments someother way, and claim the taxes that were paid were the unsecured non-priority
taxes. So, the IRS will move later (post-discharge) to levy or garnish. THEN, you have to re-open the case, and ask for an injunction. But you
will get it if the final report and order are clear. I hope you have a good
trustee who appreciates you bringing him/her an asset case, and cooperating
with the administration of that case. If you work with, and not against
the trustee, and explain what you want to accomplish, my experience is that
they will help you by making the final report VERY clear about what is being
paid for what.
The key to this is that you said YOU will file the claims for the IRS. Its gonna get tricky if the IRS files their own claims later. Then you might
have to object to their claims to make sure they have correctly
categorized each claim as secured/unsecured, and then priority/non priority. Very
tricky, but I think you can do it. Good luck! P.S. Had fun on the course at
the tourney with you a few weeks ago!
-Jeffrey B. Smith**
CURD, GALINDO & SMITH, L.L.P.
301 East Ocean Blvd. #1700
Long Beach, ,
(562) 624-1177
(562) 624-1178 fax
(310) 993-6560 cellular
_www.expertbk.www_ (http://www.expertbk.com/)
**Certified By The State Bar
Of Of As A Specialist
In Bankruptcy Law
Payments received through the bankruptcy proceeding are
applied as follows First to liabilities listed as secured; Then to unsecured
priority; and Lastly, to the claim's unsecured general class unless 1) a court
order 2)confirmed plan states to
contrary or
3) in governments best interest to do
otherwise.
Disclaimer
Although the above response is
believed to be accurate, it should not be relied upon as any type of legaladvice. It is intended to educate
the reader and a more definite answer should be based on a consultation with a
lawyer. No attorney client relation is formed with me without
a written contract.
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a
plan.
Robert J. Suhajda,
MS,CPA
Attorney
17721Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia,
The post was migrated from Yahoo.