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Separated but living together in CH7
charset="windows-1251"
Mark is correct.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
Mark J. Markus
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:00 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Separated but living together in CH7
David Tilem and others on here would be in a better position to answer that
question, but I believe they can be legally separate but still live together
without it being fraudulent.
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means at
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
The date of separation occurs only when the parties have come to a parting of the ways with no present intent to resume their marraige and their conduct evidences a complete and final break in the marital relationship. Marriage of Hardin (1995) 38 Cal. App. 4th 448, 451; One spouse must have subjective intent to end the marriage and there is objective evidence of that conduct furthering that intent. Marriage of Norviel (2002) 102 Cal. App. 4th 1152, 1158, 1159.
Likewise, spouses were not separated for purposes of Family Code Section 771(a) (treating a date of separation date for no more accumulation of marital assets) where, although the parties discussed dissolution or legal separation, they continued to reside together in the family home in separate bedrooms. Marriage of Norviel (2002) 102 Cal. App. 4th 1152, 1161.
Living physically apart is an indispensible threshold prerequisite to separation. Spouses can not be separated unless they reside in different places. Marriage of Norviel (2002) 102 Cal. App. 4th 1152, 1158, 1162-1163.
This could be a fact driven argument for your clients. Make sure the marital couple files no tax returns together, does not have joint bank accounts together, does not hold themselves out in public to be husband and wife, no birthday, anniversary, father's day, mother's day cards among spouses, does not go on vacations together, does not do laundry for one another, etc.
Lindsey B. Green
Gumm & Green, LLP, Attorneys at Law
5743 Corsa Ave., Suite 111
Westlake Village, CA 91362
phone: 818 707 4233
fax: 818 707 4262
e-mail- Lindsey@gummandgreen.com
----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Separated but living together in CH7
Under the family code, as long as there is no intent by the parties to reconcile.
Jonathan Leventhal
Jonathan D. Leventhal, Esq.
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
Mark J. Markus
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:00 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Separated but living together in CH7
David Tilem and others on here would be in a better position to answer that question, but I believe they can be legally separate but still live together without it being fraudulent.
*************************Mark J. MarkusLaw Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA 91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web: http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means at http://bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/2008/09/de
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Under the family code, as long as there is no intent by the parties to
reconcile.
Jonathan Leventhal
My Card
Jonathan D. Leventhal, Esq.
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential,
and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto)
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original
and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
David Tilem and others on here would be in a better position to
answer that question, but I believe they can be legally separate but
still live together without it being fraudulent.
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means at http://bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/2008/0 ... efinition/)
________________________________________________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
On 7/19/2010 11:42 AM, Shannon Doyle wrote:
>
>
> Haha. Yes I agree. It is one of those situations where the filing
> spouse can't afford to move out and the non-filing spouse isn't
> cooperative with sharing his income, so she can't afford a Ch13
> and is ineligible for Ch7. I believe she definitely needs to file
> a legal separation but I am concerned that it may be considered
> fraudulent if she doesn't actually move out.
>
> Shannon A. Doyle
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
>
> West Covina, CA 91791-1600
>
> Tel: (626) 646-2555
>
> Fax: (626) 332-8644
>
> www.blclaw.com
>
> BC
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Mark J. Markus
> *Sent:* Friday, July 16, 2010 6:49 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Separated but living together in CH7
>
> I thought that all married people, after a time, are separated in
> the physical sense.
>
> All kidding aside (sort of), the facts you state don't sound like
> there's any basis to treat this couple any different than any
> married couple. They could be legally separated and still reside
> together, in which case you'd have a better argument for not
> including the non-filing spouse's income.
>
> That's my two cents on a Friday afternoon.
>
> Enjoyed golfing with you Shannon. I was clearly the weak link in
> our group!
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web:http://www.bklaw.com/
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means athttp://bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/2008/09/debt-relief-agencies-definition/)
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
>
> On 7/16/2010 11:57 AM, Shannon Doyle wrote:
>
> Does anyone know the US Trustee's position on debtors who are
> separated in the physical sense but are still legally married,
> reside in the same household and file joint returns for financial
> purposes only? Under these facts would the Trustee require the
> non-filing spouse's income? I know we can exclude the non-filing
> spouse's income with a declaration of separate households but not
> sure if these debtors can really meet the standard of separate
> households.
>
> Shannon A. Doyle
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
>
> West Covina, CA 91791-1600
>
> Tel: (626) 646-2555
>
> Fax: (626) 332-8644
>
> www.blclaw.com
>
> BC
>
>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Haha. Yes I agree. It is one of those situations where the filing
spouse can't afford to move out and the non-filing spouse isn't
cooperative with sharing his income, so she can't afford a Ch13 and is
ineligible for Ch7. I believe she definitely needs to file a legal
separation but I am concerned that it may be considered fraudulent if
she doesn't actually move out.
Shannon A. Doyle
Attorney at Law
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791-1600
Tel: (626) 646-2555
Fax: (626) 332-8644
www.blclaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I thought that all married people, after a time, are separated in
the physical sense.
All kidding aside (sort of), the facts you state don't sound like
there's any basis to treat this couple any different than any
married couple. They could be legally separated and still reside
together, in which case you'd have a better argument for not
including the non-filing spouse's income.
That's my two cents on a Friday afternoon.
Enjoyed golfing with you Shannon. I was clearly the weak link in
our group!
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means at http://bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/2008/0 ... efinition/)
________________________________________________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
On 7/16/2010 11:57 AM, Shannon Doyle wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know the US Trustee's position on debtors who are
> separated in the physical sense but are still legally married,
> reside in the same household and file joint returns for financial
> purposes only? Under these facts would the Trustee require the
> non-filing spouse's income? I know we can exclude the non-filing
> spouse's income with a declaration of separate households but not
> sure if these debtors can really meet the standard of separate
> households.
>
> Shannon A. Doyle
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
>
> West Covina, CA 91791-1600
>
> Tel: (626) 646-2555
>
> Fax: (626) 332-8644
>
> www.blclaw.com
>
> BC
>
>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Does anyone know the US Trustee's position on debtors who are separated
in the physical sense but are still legally married, reside in the same
household and file joint returns for financial purposes only? Under
these facts would the Trustee require the non-filing spouse's income? I
know we can exclude the non-filing spouse's income with a declaration of
separate households but not sure if these debtors can really meet the
standard of separate households.
Shannon A. Doyle
Attorney at Law
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791-1600
Tel: (626) 646-2555
Fax: (626) 332-8644
www.blclaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.