.jpg)
Disaster area income tax filing extensions
charset="ISO-8859-1"
Glad to hear I wasn't the only one confused by this. I thought that the
time limit on 523(a)(2) and other actions was 60 days. I couldn't figure out
what the 90 days below referred to.
John D. Faucher
Faucher & Associates
Disclosure Under U.S. IRS Circular 230: The recipient may not use any tax
advice contained in this communication, including any attachments, for the
purpose of avoiding federal tax related penalties or promoting, marketing or
recommending to another party any particular transaction or matter.
On 4/4/12 4:08 PM, "Larry Simons" wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Doesnt the 90 days only apply to actions brought under 523(a)(2), (4) or
> (6)?
>
>
> stephen burton
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 4:03 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Disaster area income tax filing extensions
>
>
> I have to share an experience I had on this issue and then you decide what you
> may want to try.
>
>
>
> After the crush ended in 2005 I was approached by a client who had received a
> discharge under the old bankruptcy law. He had irs tax debt, and liens going
> back more than five years. His former counsel had listed the irs debt by
> listing the county recorder's offices where the tax liens had been recorded!
>
>
>
> I was intrigued by the challenge.
>
>
>
> I filed a motion to reopen the case and amend to add the proper address for
> irs notice and for declaratory relief to get the debtor his discharge. The
> motion was granted without objection and without so much as a peep from the
> judge.
>
>
>
> I filed the amendment and 523 a discharge complaint and served the usual
> suspects. Assistant United States attorney contacted me and we stipulated to
> the discharge of about 100,000 in tax liability. Not one word was raised by
> the Assitant AG about being outside the 90 days.
>
>
>
> Now, maybe that would not happen today, but is it not worth a try?
>
>
>
> Steve Burton
>
>
>
> To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
> Cc: Nicholas Gebelt
> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 10:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Disaster area income tax filing extensions
>
>
>
>
> I'd have to check with my client, she has it. As far as I know, no.
>
>
>
> Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
>
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt
>
> 15150 Hornell Street
>
> Whittier, CA 90604
>
> Phone: 562.777.9159
>
> FAX: 562.946.1365
>
> Email: ngebelt@goodbye2debt.com ;
> ngebelt@gebeltlaw.com
>
> Web: www.goodbye2debt.com
>
> Blog: www.southerncaliforniabankruptcylawblog.com/
>
>
>
>
> We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under
> the Bankruptcy Code.
>
>
>
> Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity
> to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
> confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,
> distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone
> other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
> delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you have
> received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at 562.777.9159 or
> e-mail info@gebeltlaw.com and destroy the
> original message and all copies.
>
>
>
> Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, the
> Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt do not represent you, and this email does not
> contain any legal advice for you.
>
>
>
> IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements imposed
> by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice
> contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to
> be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under
> the Internal Revenue code, or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to
> another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
>
>
>
>
>
> From:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> J. Markus
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 10:04 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Disaster area income tax filing extensions
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
> Was there any special notation of the extension in the record of account
> (transcript) from the IRS?
>
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means at
> http://www.bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/20 ... efinition/)
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of
> Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use
> of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure,
> copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the
> IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication
> (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be
> used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue
> Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
> transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
>
> On 4/3/2012 9:34 PM, Dennis McGoldrick wrote:
>
> This is a little over the top, but I have long been an advocate of a 523 suit
> v. the IRS to flesh this stuff out. Bacpa changed the rules, and if one were
> to file a 523 vs. the IRS at the outset of a case, the answer would be due
> before the ed cert was due. If IRS answers debt not dischargeable, and IRS
> correct, simply not filing the cert would save the debtor.
>
>
>
> d
>
>
>
> To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Disaster area income tax filing extensions
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Have you filed the debtor Ed certs? Is spouse also filed?
>
> D
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 3, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Nicholas Gebelt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Fellow members,
>>
>>
>>
>> I just had an unpleasant shock concerning the dischargeability of a federal
>> income tax debt. We filed my clients Chapter 7 papers on November 4, 2011.
>> All three requirements appeared to be satisfied for tax year 2007:
>>
>>
>>
>> (1) the return was due, with extensions (which my client took) on October 15,
>> 2008, more than three years prior to filing the bankruptcy papers;
>>
>> (2) my client filed her return by October 15, 2008, more than two years prior
>> to filing the bankruptcy papers; and
>>
>> (3) there were no assessments during the 240 days prior to filing the
>> bankruptcy papers.
>>
>>
>>
>> The problem: In 2008 my client lived in Harris County, Texas, one of six
>> Texas counties declared disaster areas due to Hurricane Ike. As a result,
>> the IRS granted a filing extension to January 5, 2009 for all Harris County
>> residents, whether they wanted it or not. Thus, in an ironically perverse
>> twist, the extension which was ostensibly enacted to give relief to taxpayers
>> is now used to deny relief to my client. To add to the frustration, my
>> client lived in a part of Harris County that was completely unaffected by Ike
>> - apparently, Harris County is a very large county.
>>
>>
>>
>> In light of this unfortunate experience, I offer the following advice: If
>> you have clients with potentially dischargeable income tax debt, be sure to
>> investigate the possibility of localized filing extensions as part of your
>> prebankruptcy planning.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
>>
>> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt
>>
>> 15150 Hornell Street
>>
>> Whittier, CA 90604
>>
>> Phone: 562.777.9159
>>
>> FAX: 562.946.1365
>>
>> Email: ngebelt@goodbye2debt.com ;
>> ngebelt@gebeltlaw.com
>>
>> Web: www.goodbye2debt.com
>>
>> Blog: www.southerncaliforniabankruptcylawblog.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under
>> the Bankruptcy Code.
>>
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity
>> to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
>> confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,
>> distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone
>> other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
>> delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you have
>> received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at 562.777.9159
>> or e-mail info@gebeltlaw.com and destroy the
>> original message and all copies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation,
>> the Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt do not represent you, and this email does
>> not contain any legal advice for you.
>>
>>
>>
>> IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements imposed
>> by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice
>> contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended
>> to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties
>> under the Internal Revenue code, or (ii) promoting, marketing, or
>> recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
charset="ISO-8859-1"
Glad to hear I wasn't the only one confused by this. I thought that the time limit on 523(a)(2) and other actions was 60 days. I couldn't figure out what the 90 days below referred to. John D. FaucherFaucher & Associates Disclosure Under U.S. IRS Circular 230: The recipient may not use any tax advice contained in this communication, including any attachments, for the purpose of avoiding federal tax related penalties or promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any particular transaction or matter.On 4/4/12 4:08 PM, "Larry Simons" <larry@lsimonslaw.com> wrote:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I have to share an experience I had on this issue and then you decide what you may want to try.
After the crush ended in 2005 I was approached by a client who had received a discharge under the old bankruptcy law. He had irs tax debt, and liens going back more than five years. His former counsel had listed the irs debt by listing the county recorder's offices where the tax liens had been recorded!
I was intrigued by the challenge.
I filed a motion to reopen the caseand amend to add the proper address for irs notice and for declaratory relief to get the debtor his discharge. The motion was granted without objection and without so much as a peepfrom the judge.
I filed the amendment and 523 a discharge complaint and served the usual suspects. Assistant United States attorney contacted me and we stipulated to the discharge of about 100,000 in tax liability. Not one word was raised by the Assitant AG about being outside the 90 days.
Now, maybe that would not happen today, but is it not worth a try?
Steve Burton
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I'd have to check with my client, she has it. As far as I know, no.
Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist
[cid:image001.jpg@01CD11E5.FF0CE2F0]
Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt
15150 Hornell Street
Whittier, CA 90604
Phone: 562.777.9159
FAX: 562.946.1365
Email: ngebelt@goodbye2debt.com; ngebelt@gebeltlaw.com
Web: www.goodbye2debt.com
Blog: www.southerncaliforniabankruptcylawblog.com/
We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at 562.777.9159 or e-mail info@gebeltlaw.com and destroy the original message and all copies.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, the Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt do not represent you, and this email does not contain any legal advice for you.
IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue code, or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Nick,
Was there any special notation of the extension in the record of
account (transcript) from the IRS?
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
means at
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
This is a little over the top, but I have long been an advocate of a 523 suit v. the IRS to flesh this stuff out. Bacpa changed the rules, and if one were to file a 523 vs. the IRS at the outset of a case, the answer would be due before the ed cert was due. If IRS answers debt not dischargeable, and IRS correct, simply not filing the cert would save the debtor.
d
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Disaster area income tax filing extensions
Nick
Have you filed the debtor Ed certs? Is spouse also filed?
D
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 3, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Nicholas Gebelt wrote:
>Dear Fellow members,
>
>I just had an unpleasant shock concerning the dischargeability
of a federal income tax debt. We filed my clients Chapter 7 papers
on November 4, 2011. All three requirements appeared to be satisfied for
tax year 2007:
>
>(1) the return was due, with
extensions (which my client took) on October 15, 2008, more than three years
prior to filing the bankruptcy papers;
>(2) my client filed her
return by October 15, 2008, more than two years prior to filing the bankruptcy
papers; and
>(3) there were no assessments
during the 240 days prior to filing the bankruptcy papers.
>
>The problem: In 2008 my client lived in Harris County,
Texas, one of six Texas counties declared disaster areas due to Hurricane Ike.
As a result, the IRS granted a filing extension to January 5, 2009 for all
Harris County residents, whether they wanted it or not. Thus, in an
ironically perverse twist, the extension which was ostensibly enacted to give
relief to taxpayers is now used to deny relief to my client. To add to
the frustration, my client lived in a part of Harris County that was completely
unaffected by Ike - apparently, Harris County is a very large county.
>
>In light of this unfortunate experience, I offer the following
advice: If you have clients with potentially dischargeable income tax
debt, be sure to investigate the possibility of localized filing extensions as
part of your prebankruptcy planning.
>
>All the best,
>
>Nick
>
>Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
>Certified Bankruptcy Specialist
>
>
>
>Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt
>15150 Hornell Street
>Whittier, CA 90604
>Phone: 562.777.9159
>FAX: 562.946.1365
>Email: ngebelt@goodbye2debt.com; ngebelt@gebeltlaw.com
>Web: www.goodbye2debt.com
>Blog: www.southerncaliforniabankruptcylawblog.com/
>
>We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for
bankruptcy relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
>
>Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended
only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from
disclosure. Dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the
information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee
or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us
immediately at 562.777.9159 or e-mail info@gebeltlaw.comand destroy the original
message and all copies.
>
>Representation Note: If you have not signed
a contract of representation, the Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt do not
represent you, and this email does not contain any legal advice for you.
>
>IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order
to comply with the requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we
inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including
any attachments) is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the
purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue code, or (ii)
promoting, marketing, or recommending to another party any transaction or
matter addressed herein.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Nick
Have you filed the debtor Ed certs? Is spouse also filed?
D
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 3, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Nicholas Gebelt wrote:
> Dear Fellow members,
>
>
>
> I just had an unpleasant shock concerning the dischargeability of a federal income tax debt. We filed my clients Chapter 7 papers on November 4, 2011. All three requirements appeared to be satisfied for tax year 2007:
>
>
>
> (1) the return was due, with extensions (which my client took) on October 15, 2008, more than three years prior to filing the bankruptcy papers;
>
> (2) my client filed her return by October 15, 2008, more than two years prior to filing the bankruptcy papers; and
>
> (3) there were no assessments during the 240 days prior to filing the bankruptcy papers.
>
>
>
> The problem: In 2008 my client lived in Harris County, Texas, one of six Texas counties declared disaster areas due to Hurricane Ike. As a result, the IRS granted a filing extension to January 5, 2009 for all Harris County residents, whether they wanted it or not. Thus, in an ironically perverse twist, the extension which was ostensibly enacted to give relief to taxpayers is now used to deny relief to my client. To add to the frustration, my client lived in a part of Harris County that was completely unaffected by Ike - apparently, Harris County is a very large county.
>
>
>
> In light of this unfortunate experience, I offer the following advice: If you have clients with potentially dischargeable income tax debt, be sure to investigate the possibility of localized filing extensions as part of your prebankruptcy planning.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
>
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt
>
> 15150 Hornell Street
>
> Whittier, CA 90604
>
> Phone: 562.777.9159
>
> FAX: 562.946.1365
>
> Email: ngebelt@goodbye2debt.com; ngebelt@gebeltlaw.com
>
> Web: www.goodbye2debt.com
>
> Blog: www.southerncaliforniabankruptcylawblog.com/
>
>
>
> We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
>
>
>
> Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at 562.777.9159 or e-mail info@gebeltlaw.com and destroy the original message and all copies.
>
>
>
> Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, the Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt do not represent you, and this email does not contain any legal advice for you.
>
>
>
> IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue code, or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
>
>
Nick Have you filed the debtor Ed certs? Is spouse also filed?DSent from my iPhoneOn Apr 3, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Nicholas Gebelt <ngebelt@gebeltlaw.com> wrote:
Dear Fellow members,
I just had an unpleasant shock concerning the dischargeability
of a federal income tax debt. We filed my clients Chapter 7 papers
on November 4, 2011. All three requirements appeared to be satisfied for
tax year 2007:
(1) the return was due, with
extensions (which my client took) on October 15, 2008, more than three years
prior to filing the bankruptcy papers;
(2) my client filed her
return by October 15, 2008, more than two years prior to filing the bankruptcy
papers; and
(3) there were no assessments
during the 240 days prior to filing the bankruptcy papers.
The problem: In 2008 my client lived in Harris County,
Texas, one of six Texas counties declared disaster areas due to Hurricane Ike.
As a result, the IRS granted a filing extension to January 5, 2009 for all
Harris County residents, whether they wanted it or not. Thus, in an
ironically perverse twist, the extension which was ostensibly enacted to give
relief to taxpayers is now used to deny relief to my client. To add to
the frustration, my client lived in a part of Harris County that was completely
unaffected by Ike - apparently, Harris County is a very large county.
In light of this unfortunate experience, I offer the following
advice: If you have clients with potentially dischargeable income tax
debt, be sure to investigate the possibility of localized filing extensions as
part of your prebankruptcy planning.
All the best,
Nick
Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist
<image002.jpg>
Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt
15150 Hornell Street
Whittier, CA 90604
Phone: 562.777.9159
FAX: 562.946.1365
Email: ngebelt@goodbye2debt.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="US-ASCII"
Wow, Nick. That's a sobering experience and I appreciate your sharing
it. I have a horror story in my tax dischargeability history as well
that is too complex to go into, but I mention it for those who only
dabble in tax cases. Be wary of tax dischargeability cases - some are
booby trapped.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Dear Fellow members,
I just had an unpleasant shock concerning the dischargeability of a federal income tax debt. We filed my client's Chapter 7 papers on November 4, 2011. All three requirements appeared to be satisfied for tax year 2007:
(1) the return was due, with extensions (which my client took) on October 15, 2008, more than three years prior to filing the bankruptcy papers;
(2) my client filed her return by October 15, 2008, more than two years prior to filing the bankruptcy papers; and
(3) there were no assessments during the 240 days prior to filing the bankruptcy papers.
The problem: In 2008 my client lived in Harris County, Texas, one of six Texas counties declared disaster areas due to Hurricane Ike. As a result, the IRS granted a filing extension to January 5, 2009 for all Harris County residents, whether they wanted it or not. Thus, in an ironically perverse twist, the extension which was ostensibly enacted to give relief to taxpayers is now used to deny relief to my client. To add to the frustration, my client lived in a part of Harris County that was completely unaffected by Ike - apparently, Harris County is a very large county.
In light of this unfortunate experience, I offer the following advice: If you have clients with potentially dischargeable income tax debt, be sure to investigate the possibility of localized filing extensions as part of your prebankruptcy planning.
All the best,
Nick
Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist
[cid:image002.jpg@01CD1196.1203D4E0]
Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt
15150 Hornell Street
Whittier, CA 90604
Phone: 562.777.9159
FAX: 562.946.1365
Email: ngebelt@goodbye2debt.com; ngebelt@gebeltlaw.com
Web: www.goodbye2debt.com
Blog: www.southerncaliforniabankruptcylawblog.com/
We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at 562.777.9159 or e-mail info@gebeltlaw.com and destroy the original message and all copies.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, the Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt do not represent you, and this email does not contain any legal advice for you.
IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue code, or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.