.jpg)
HOA recorded lien
After reading Ms. Romero's comment it may be possible to strip the lien under 1322(b) if there
is no "allowed secured claim" i.e. the claim is unsecured but I think a C13 has to be filed.
I have to change my stance and realize I am now on thin ice so the cites
of Aki have to be checked out.
But I still think it would be better to make an offer to settle because of the extra work involved. As
a former president of a HOA, we looked at the cost of collection as a
factor.
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. The time is now to lower 2012taxes.
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
In a message dated 1/16/2013 11:18:13 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dromerolaw@gmail.com writes:
See the below practice tip by Aki Koyama--I haven't read the cases or trythe procedure yet.
Practice tip: Can you avoid an HOA lien for the prepetition delinquency?The answer appears to be yes. See In re Cook 2010 WL
4687953,_Bkrtcy.E.D.Va_ (http://bkrtcy.e.d.va/) ., November 10, 2010; In re Haywood 2008 WL
5146637, Bkrtcy.E.D.N.C., December 05, 2008 and In re Bartee 212 F.3d 277 C.A.5
(Tex.) May 15, 2000. The procedural device would be a Motion to Avoid Lienpursuant to 506(d).
Sincerely,
Daniela P. Romero Law Office of Daniela P. Romero, APLC
1015 North Lake Ave., Ste. 212
Pasadena, CA 91104
Tel: (626) 817-2611
Fax: (626) 296-6991
email: _dromerolaw@gmail.com_ (mailto:dromerolaw@gmail.com)
web: _www.pasadenabankruptcylaw.com_
(http://www.pasadenabankruptcylaw.com/)
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
See the below practice tip by Aki Koyama--I haven't read the cases or try
the procedure yet.
Practice tip: Can you avoid an HOA lien for the prepetition delinquency?
The answer appears to be yes. See In re Cook 2010 WL
4687953,Bkrtcy.E.D.Va.,
November 10, 2010; In re Haywood 2008 WL 5146637, Bkrtcy.E.D.N.C., December
05, 2008 and In re Bartee 212 F.3d 277 C.A.5 (Tex.) May 15, 2000. The
procedural device would be a Motion to Avoid Lien pursuant to 506(d).
Sincerely,
*
Daniela P. Romero*
*Law Office of Daniela P. Romero, APLC*
*1015 North Lake Ave., Ste. 212*
*Pasadena, CA 91104*
*Tel: (626) 817-2611*
*Fax: (626) 296-6991*
*email: dromerolaw@gmail.com *
*web: www.pasadenabankruptcylaw.com*
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
HOA dues arising postpetition are in personum to the property owner and can be in rem depending on the cc&r's and HOA's compliance with statutory lien procedures.
Mark Jessee
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:46 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
> The discharge is effective for in personam liability of prepetition debt, but what about postpetition hoa debt? Is it just in rem or also in personam?
>
> On Jan 16, 2013 5:55 PM, "Armen Shaghzo" wrote:
>>
>> Your client's HOA lien attaches to the property and although the debt your client owed was discharged the lien survives. Most CC&Rs reflect this in in the contract between homeowner and HOA.
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> Date: 01/16/2013 11:04 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [cdcbaa] HOA recorded lien
>>
>>
>>
>> Once again, I need assistance with this issue.
>>
>> Debtor had a lien recorded by her HOA pre-filing. She has maintained current all post filing HOA dues. HOA has recorded a NOD and will proceed with a sale date.
>>
>> When I filed her BK, now discharged, we were unaware of the recorded lien, filed a motion to reopen for the purpose of getting rid of this lien, the motion to reopen has been granted. HOA's attorney is telling me that since they have a statutory lien, even if the court issues its order avoiding lien, the HOA can re-record the original lien.
>>
>> Any input will be much appreciated.
>>
>> Once again, thanks for any and all guidance.
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Dear Kirk,
Please review 11 U.S.C. 523(a)(16) for the answer to your question.
Best regards,
Nick
Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
Board Certified Bankruptcy Specialist
[Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CC076B.B14D73C0]
Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt
15150 Hornell Street
Whittier, CA 90604
Phone: 562.777.9159
FAX: 562.946.1365
Email: ngebelt@goodbye2debt.com; ngebelt@gebeltlaw.com
Web: www.goodbye2debt.com
Blog: www.southerncaliforniabankruptcylawblog.com/
We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at 562.777.9159 or e-mail info@gebeltlaw.com and destroy the original message and all copies.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, the Law Offices of Nicholas Gebelt do not represent you, and this email does not contain any legal advice for you.
IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue code, or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
The discharge is effective for in personam liability of prepetition debt,
but what about postpetition hoa debt? Is it just in rem or also in personam?
On Jan 16, 2013 5:55 PM, "Armen Shaghzo" wrote:
> **
>
>
> Your client's HOA lien attaches to the property and although the debt your
> client owed was discharged the lien survives. Most CC&Rs reflect this in
> in the contract between homeowner and HOA.
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Date: 01/16/2013 11:04 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [cdcbaa] HOA recorded lien
>
>
>
>
> Once again, I need assistance with this issue.
>
> Debtor had a lien recorded by her HOA pre-filing. She has maintained
> current all post filing HOA dues. HOA has recorded a NOD and will proceed
> with a sale date.
>
> When I filed her BK, now discharged, we were unaware of the recorded lien,
> filed a motion to reopen for the purpose of getting rid of this lien, the
> motion to reopen has been granted. HOA's attorney is telling me that since
> they have a statutory lien, even if the court issues its order avoiding
> lien, the HOA can re-record the original lien.
>
> Any input will be much appreciated.
>
> Once again, thanks for any and all guidance.
>
>
>
>
The discharge is effective for in personam liability of prepetition debt, but what about postpetition hoa debt? Is it just in rem or also in personam?
On Jan 16, 2013 5:55 PM, "Armen Shaghzo" <ashaghzo@gmail.com> wrote:
Your client's HOA lien attaches to the property and although the debt your client owed was discharged the lien survives. Most CC&Rs reflect this in in the contract between homeowner and HOA.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Some HOA liens are a result of judgments, some are statutory based upon CC&R's after following required notice and time procedures. If they are from
judgments they are subject to avoidance under 522(f). If they are
statutory liens they are not. You have to delve into the details of each alleged
lien. Regardless, if the underlying debt has been discharged, I do not see
how an HOA can pursue imposing a statutory lien postpetition relating toa prepetition discharged debt.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 1/16/2013 6:58:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
sdoyle@blclaw.com writes:
I supposed you can do it under 506(d) in the Ch13 context but I believe
HOA liens are considered statutory liens and therefore 522(f) does not apply
in the Ch7 context. Have you avoided HOA liens in Ch7?
Shannon A. Doyle
Attorney at Law
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791-1600
Tel: (626) 646-2555
Fax: (626) 332-8644
_www.blclaw.com_ (http://www.blclaw.com/)
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:10 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Shannon Doyle
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] HOA recorded lien
I disagree. I've done that many times.
On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:30 PM, "Shannon Doyle" wrote:
Unfortunately you cant avoid an HOA lien.
Shannon A. Doyle
Attorney at Law
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791-1600
Tel: (626) 646-2555
Fax: (626) 332-8644
_www.blclaw.com_ (http://www.blclaw.com/)
(http://yahoogroups.com/) ] On Behalf Of sbombalier
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:04 AM
To: _cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com)
Subject: [cdcbaa] HOA recorded lien
Once again, I need assistance with this issue.
Debtor had a lien recorded by her HOA pre-filing. She has maintained
current all post filing HOA dues. HOA has recorded a NOD and will proceed with a
sale date.
When I filed her BK, now discharged, we were unaware of the recorded lien,filed a motion to reopen for the purpose of getting rid of this lien, themotion to reopen has been gran ted. HOA's attorney is telling me that since
they have a statutory lien, even if the court issues its order avoiding
lien, the HOA can re-record the original lien.
Any input will be much appreciated.
Once again, thanks for any and all guidance.
Some HOA liens are a result of judgments, some are statutory based upon
CC&R's after following required notice and time procedures. If
they are from judgments they are subject to avoidance under
522(f). If they are statutory liens they are not. You have to
delve into the details of each alleged lien. Regardless, if the underlying
debt has been discharged, I do not see how an HOA
can pursue imposing a statutory lien postpetition relating
to a prepetition discharged debt.
Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 1/16/2013 6:58:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
sdoyle@blclaw.com writes:
I supposed
you can do it under 506(d) in the Ch13 context but I believe HOA liens are
considered statutory liens and therefore 522(f) does not apply in the Ch7 context. Have you avoided HOA liens in Ch7?
Shannon A.
Doyle
Attorney at
Law
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite
250
West Covina, CA
91791-1600
Tel: (626)
646-2555
Fax: (626)
332-8644
www.blclaw.com
From: Ramiro Flores Munoz [mailto:rfloresmunoz@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:10 PMTo:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comCc: Shannon DoyleSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] HOA recorded lien
I disagree. I've done that many times.
On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:30 PM, "Shannon Doyle" <sdoyle@blclaw.com>
wrote:
Unfortunately you cant avoid an HOA
lien.
Shannon A. Doyle
Attorney at Law
<image001.jpg>
100
N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West
Covina, CA 91791-1600
Tel:
(626) 646-2555
Fax:
(626) 332-8644
www.blclaw.com
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
sbombalierSent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:04
AMTo:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I supposed you can do it under 506(d) in the Ch13 context but I believe
HOA liens are considered statutory liens and therefore 522(f) does not
apply in the Ch7 context. Have you avoided HOA liens in Ch7?
Shannon A. Doyle
Attorney at Law
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791-1600
Tel: (626) 646-2555
Fax: (626) 332-8644
www.blclaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Hello:
A discharge in bankruptcy is an injunction for in personam liability and
not in rem charges so I don't believe there is cause to have the court
order the lien avoided.
I would make an offer to the HOA before it goes to court. After that youhave no leverage.
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. The time is now to lower 2012taxes.
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
562-924-8922
Homeowner Association Strategist.
As a strategist, I analyze and integrate the operations, reserve study,
budget, and financial statements into a unitary plan for 1 5 years,
utilizing my experience as
a former treasurer and president of a homeowners' association and
corporate
controller and auditor, to minimize homeowner association dues.
In a message dated 1/16/2013 3:48:36 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
Debtor had a lien recorded by her HOA pre-filing. She has maintained
current all post filing HOA dues. HOA has recorded a NOD and will proceed with a
sale date.
When I filed her BK, now discharged, we were unaware of the recorded lien,filed a motion to reopen for the purpose of getting rid of this lien, themotion to reopen has been granted. HOA's attorney is telling me that sincethey have a statutory lien, even if the court issues its order avoiding lien, the HOA can re-record the original lien.
Any input will be much appreciated.
Hello:
A discharge in bankruptcy is an injunction for
in personam liability and
not in rem charges so I don't believe there is cause to have the court
order the lien avoided.
I would make an offer to the HOA before it goes to court. After that
you have no leverage.
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. The time is
now to lower 2012 taxes.
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
562-924-8922
Homeowner Association
Strategist.
As a strategist, I
analyze and integrate the operations, reserve study, budget, and financialstatements into a unitary plan for 1 5 years, utilizing my experience
as
a former treasurer
and president of a homeowners' association and
corporate
controller and auditor,
to minimize homeowner association dues.
In a message dated 1/16/2013 3:48:36 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
Debtor
had a lien recorded by her HOA pre-filing. She has maintained current all post
filing HOA dues. HOA has recorded a NOD and will proceed with a sale
date.When I filed her BK, now discharged, we were unaware of the recorded lien, filed a motion to reopen for the purpose of getting rid of this
lien, the motion to reopen has been granted. HOA's attorney is telling me that
since they have a statutory lien, even if the court issues its order avoiding
lien, the HOA can re-record the original lien.Any input will be much
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Great. Don't know about most of you but I see HOA and I cringe. They are a nightmare to put it mildly. They show up at 341(a)s too.
Charles Shamash, Esq.
Caceres & Shamash, LLP
8200 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 400
Beverly Hills, CA 90211
Tel: (310) 205-3400
Cell: (310) 560-4000
Fax: (310) 878-8308
E-mail: cs@locs.com
P Please don't print this e-mail unless it is necessary.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.