Chapter 13 Supplemental Fee Applications - Santa Barbara

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I may not like it, but I understand that she caps compensation at the
$2,000 figure for the adversary complaint lien stripping the junior consensual
liens and motions to stay postpetition payments. However that was only part
of my fee application. I also had to prosecute 522(f) motions and then
advance the court costs for certification of the orders avoiding the judgment
liens and the recorder's fees to record the certified copies of the
orders. That was alone over $100 out of pocket, not to mention the additional
time spent. There were unrelated amended schedule filing fees advanced aswell. In the fee applications I saw, which were all awarded $2,000, nonereferred to prosecuting 522(f) motions in addition to the adversary complaints
and motions to suspend postpetition payments. Have you seen her lumping in
522(f) motion prosecution into her flat $2,000 figure as well?
David, Judge Riblet always refers the less enlightened to your work
product for guidance on how to properly prosecute the adversary complaints to
avoid junior liens and motions to suspend payments. Obviously, in the future
I will now mimic your flat fee compensation application and avoid the
unrewarded effort of keeping track of my time and expenses. Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 8/24/2012 4:17:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
david@commonsnet.com writes:
I have done many lien-strips by adversary complaint in front of Judge
Riblet over the last 4-5 years. In the early days she allowed fees based upon
my hours and expenses, but at some point several years ago she decided that$2,000 was a reasonable fee for these cases and that is what she allows regardless of the hours spent. I imagine she would be more liberal if therewere truly unusual circumstances, but as a rule, $2k is it. That is why many
of us have gone to 1-page fixed fee agreements with our clients--at least we
don't have to keep track of our time.
David Commons
jesseelaw@... wrote:
>
> An appeal does not appear economically viable to me. A great deal of
> uncompensated time and effort, with a limited likelihood of success.
There is
> nothing in the record indicating her reasoning for the reduction of the> requested fees and expenses. I just do not see the BAP finding her
> supplemental fee award order patently unreasonable on its face. That iswhy I wonder
> if we really just need to set supplemental fee applications for hearing,> so there is at least a chance to persuade her compensate all the time and
> costs advanced and a record, if there is a basis for appeal.
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
> NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED
RECIPIENT
> OF THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGEDBY
> LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE,
DISSEMINATION,
> DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE
> NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE
THIS
> MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
>
>
> In a message dated 8/24/2012 3:04:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> vle@... writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> Worth an appeal?
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
> Certified Family Law Specialist
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
> 100 E. Thousand Oaks Blvd., Suite 147
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-8125
> (805) 446-6262 Phone
> (661) 222-2922 Phone
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
> This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
> messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the
LAW
> OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are notthe
> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying,
> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached
to this
> message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in
error,
> please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
> 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments andall
> copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.
Thank you.
>
>
[mailto:_cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of
> Mark Jessee
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 2:16 PM
> To: _cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com)
> Subject: [cdcbaa] Chapter 13 Supplemental Fee Applications - Santa
Barbara
>
>
>
>
> Colleagues:
>
> I am frankly about as disheartened as I have ever been in 18 years of > practicing bankruptcy law after receiving orders today on a couple of > supplemental fee applications I submitted for Northern Division Chapter13 cases. I
> know many of you do not practice Chapter 13 in the hinterlands of the
> Northern Division, but those of you who do, any advice/commiseration iswelcome.
>
> As you know Judge Riblet is quite diligent, has high standards and
> requires attorneys to abide by the local rules, the FBRP and demands
motions
> adhere to the FRE (appraisals supported by detailed authenticating
declarations,
> etc.) While I wish she that she would institute changes in her hearing
> procedures that would save a great deal of attorney time, I nevertheless> respect and appreciate her diligence. As you know she requires both
adversary
> complaints to strip the junior trust deeds and motions to suspend
payments
> during the course of the plan. Properly prepared, these can be lengthy
> motions with numerous supporting exhibits. Multiple copies of the motionand
> adversary complaint being served at various addresses of all the trust
deed
> holders and servicers via certified mail adds up to a hefty amount of
out of
> pocket postage and photocopy expense.
>
> Although I have appeared in front of Judge Riblet for years, I have
never
> before submitted junior lien stripping fee applications to her before
now.
> I extensively researched attorneys appearing before her in Chapter 13
lien
> stripping matters for the lay of the land. Frankly, I was shocked at how> few (less than 5) of the numerous attorneys I researched actually
submitted
> supplemental fee applications for their efforts relating to their lien
> stripping efforts during the last couple years. I wonder if they are
working for
> free or just not submitting fee applications? The few attorney
> supplemental fee applications I found were all awarded $2,000,
regardless of the time
> expended, regardless of whether they were based upon a one page motion
> stating the attorney and debtor agreed to a flat fee or a detailed
description
> of attorney efforts and time expended by date as the local rules
require.
> While it looked like Judge Riblet generally awards a flat $2,000 for
> attorney fees relating to junior lien stripping efforts, as it was a
small number
> of fee applications I found, I was not certain that was always the case.
>
> I submitted a couple fee applications in compliance with LBR 3015-1(v)
and
> Appendix IV for two cases that were not simple lien stripping
> adversaries/motions. These two lien stripping cases required extra timesorting out
> some of the facts and obtaining required documents, so frankly even on
the
> lien strip adversaries and motions I felt $2,000 compensation for my
time for
> quality motions was a bit low, especially with my extensive out of
pocket
> costs. Regardless I only sought $2,000 for my time in one case and onlya
> few hundred more than that in the other for the lien strip
> adversaries/motions. I did not even seek compensation for my time
preparing the fee
> application as allowed under the local rules. My fee applications
included not only
> the compensation requests for the lien stripping adversaries, but also
> compensation for separate 522(f) motions to remove a few judgement
liens for
> the respective debtors. Those of course require all the supporting
> documentation of the lien stripping adversaries/motions, plus the
recorded abstracts
> of judgment. As the lien holders were insured depository institutions,
> motions had to be served by certified mail at the varying addresses to
ensure
> proper service. (i.e. another couple hundred out of pocket for postage
and
> photocopies). The fee applications included a detailed narrative
explaining
> the nature of the efforts provided and why the separate motions and time> expended were necessary and beneficial to the estate. In addition I
provided
> a specified breakdown of effort and time by date and details regarding
the
> expenses including advanced court costs for filing amended schedules,
for
> obtaining certified copies of the Order granting 522(f) motions and to
> record them with the County. I even provided the separate totals by
category
> of expense as required.
>
> Despite the substantially different amounts of time spent on the
different
> cases, the addition of prosecuting 522(f) motions to remove multiple
> judgment liens and significant costs advanced in my two cases, the sameflat
> $2,000 attorney fees were awarded by Judge Riblet in each case. No extra> compensation was allowed for the several hours of efforts prosecuting
the
> 522(f) motions. All of the costs advanced, which exceed $1,000
including court
> fees and recorder fees that I am clearly not supposed to responsible for> under my fee agreement or RARA, were denied without comment.
>
> Obviously we are always subject to the vagaries of each Judge's
subjective
> interpretation as to the value of our efforts in such cases. I have had> fees and costs that I believed more than reasonable reduced before, butthat
> is a couple hundred here or there. Not pleasant, but not devastating.
> Today's reductions feel devastating. The two orders combined reduced myfee and
> costs reimbursement applications by nearly $4,000, and that was after my> voluntary reductions in the motions. Here I made extra efforts,
prosecuted
> 522(f) motions, provided the details in the fee application and was
still
> awarded nothing for the effort. I was awarded the same amount of fees asif I
> had made a barely marginal effort, not prosecuted the 522(f) motions,
and
> submitted only a one page fee application without breakdown for $2,000.In
> fact I would have more money in my pocket if I would not have advanced
all
> the 522(f) motion court costs, recorder fees and postage and copy costs!How
> are we supposed to make a living if we follow the rules by submitting
> reasonable fee applications for necessary motion work on behalf of
Chapter 13
> debtors just to see them eviscerated?
>
> What other economically feasible course of action could I have
undertaken
> to obtain approval of fees for all of my work and out of pocket costs?
As
> diligent as she is, I have difficulty believing Judge Riblet just missedall
> the details regarding the 522(f) motion efforts, court costs and
recorder
> fees advanced in two separate fee applications, but would I have been
> better off preparing separate fee applications for the 522(f) motions
efforts
> even though they were prosecuted during the same time frame as the lien> stripping adversaries/motions? Instead of filing motion a scream or diemotion
> for fees, set it for hearing at the outset and spend a few more
> uncompensated hours commuting to Santa Barbara to wait for and attend
the hearing
> hoping my personal appearance and persuasiveness might convince her to
deviate
> from her flat $2,000 fee for lien stripping adversaries/motions? I
suppose I
> at least would then have a chance to point out 522(f) motions are
> additional motions that should be compensated, but that gamble does notstrike me
> as an efficient use of half a day.
>
> Mark Jessee
>
I may not like it, but I understand that she caps compensation at
the $2,000 figure for the adversary complaint lien stripping the junior
consensual liens and motions to stay postpetition payments. However that
was only part of my fee application. I also had to prosecute 522(f)
motions and then advance the court costs for certification of the orders
avoiding the judgment liens and the recorder's fees to record the certified
copies of the orders. That was alone over $100 out of
pocket, not to mention the additional time spent. There were unrelated
amended schedule filing fees advanced as well. In the fee applications I
saw, which were all awarded $2,000, none referred to prosecuting 522(f) motions
in addition to the adversary complaints and motions to suspend postpetitionpayments. Have you seen her lumping in 522(f) motion
prosecution into her flat $2,000 figure as well?

David, Judge Riblet always refers the less enlightened to your work
product for guidance on how to properly prosecute the adversary complaints
to avoid junior liens and motions to suspend payments.
Obviously, in the future I will now mimic your flat fee compensation application
and avoid the unrewarded effort of keeping track of my time and
expenses.

Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)

In a message dated 8/24/2012 4:17:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
david@commonsnet.com writes:


I have done many lien-strips by adversary complaint in front of Judge Riblet over the last 4-5 years. In the early days she allowed fees based upon
my hours and expenses, but at some point several years ago she decided that
$2,000 was a reasonable fee for these cases and that is what she allows
regardless of the hours spent. I imagine she would be more liberal if there
were truly unusual circumstances, but as a rule, $2k is it. That is why many
of us have gone to 1-page fixed fee agreements with our clients--at least we
don't have to keep track of our time. David Commons--- In
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Posts: 22904
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:38 pm


I have done many lien-strips by adversary complaint in front of Judge Riblet over the last 4-5 years. In the early days she allowed fees based upon my hours and expenses, but at some point several years ago she decided that $2,000 was a reasonable fee for these cases and that is what she allows regardless of the hours spent. I imagine she would be more liberal if there were truly unusual circumstances, but as a rule, $2k is it. That is why many of us have gone to 1-page fixed fee agreements with our clients--at least we don't have to keep track of our time.
David Commons
>
> An appeal does not appear economically viable to me. A great deal of
> uncompensated time and effort, with a limited likelihood of success. There is
> nothing in the record indicating her reasoning for the reduction of the> requested fees and expenses. I just do not see the BAP finding her
> supplemental fee award order patently unreasonable on its face. That is why I wonder
> if we really just need to set supplemental fee applications for hearing,> so there is at least a chance to persuade her compensate all the time and
> costs advanced and a record, if there is a basis for appeal.
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
> NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT
> OF THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY
> LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION,
> DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE
> NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THIS
> MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
>
>
> In a message dated 8/24/2012 3:04:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> vle@... writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> Worth an appeal?
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
> Certified Family Law Specialist
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
> 100 E. Thousand Oaks Blvd., Suite 147
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-8125
> (805) 446-6262 Phone
> (661) 222-2922 Phone
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
> This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
> messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW
> OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the
> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this
> message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error,
> please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
> 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all
> copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way. Thank you.
>
>
f
> Mark Jessee
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 2:16 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [cdcbaa] Chapter 13 Supplemental Fee Applications - Santa Barbara
>
>
>
>
> Colleagues:
>
> I am frankly about as disheartened as I have ever been in 18 years of
> practicing bankruptcy law after receiving orders today on a couple of
> supplemental fee applications I submitted for Northern Division Chapter 13 cases. I
> know many of you do not practice Chapter 13 in the hinterlands of the
> Northern Division, but those of you who do, any advice/commiseration is welcome.
>
> As you know Judge Riblet is quite diligent, has high standards and
> requires attorneys to abide by the local rules, the FBRP and demands motions
> adhere to the FRE (appraisals supported by detailed authenticating declarations,
> etc.) While I wish she that she would institute changes in her hearing
> procedures that would save a great deal of attorney time, I nevertheless> respect and appreciate her diligence. As you know she requires both adversary
> complaints to strip the junior trust deeds and motions to suspend payments
> during the course of the plan. Properly prepared, these can be lengthy
> motions with numerous supporting exhibits. Multiple copies of the motion and
> adversary complaint being served at various addresses of all the trust deed
> holders and servicers via certified mail adds up to a hefty amount of out of
> pocket postage and photocopy expense.
>
> Although I have appeared in front of Judge Riblet for years, I have never
> before submitted junior lien stripping fee applications to her before now.
> I extensively researched attorneys appearing before her in Chapter 13 lien
> stripping matters for the lay of the land. Frankly, I was shocked at how > few (less than 5) of the numerous attorneys I researched actually submitted
> supplemental fee applications for their efforts relating to their lien > stripping efforts during the last couple years. I wonder if they are working for
> free or just not submitting fee applications? The few attorney
> supplemental fee applications I found were all awarded $2,000, regardless of the time
> expended, regardless of whether they were based upon a one page motion
> stating the attorney and debtor agreed to a flat fee or a detailed description
> of attorney efforts and time expended by date as the local rules require.
> While it looked like Judge Riblet generally awards a flat $2,000 for
> attorney fees relating to junior lien stripping efforts, as it was a small number
> of fee applications I found, I was not certain that was always the case.
>
> I submitted a couple fee applications in compliance with LBR 3015-1(v) and
> Appendix IV for two cases that were not simple lien stripping
> adversaries/motions. These two lien stripping cases required extra time sorting out
> some of the facts and obtaining required documents, so frankly even on the
> lien strip adversaries and motions I felt $2,000 compensation for my time for
> quality motions was a bit low, especially with my extensive out of pocket
> costs. Regardless I only sought $2,000 for my time in one case and only a
> few hundred more than that in the other for the lien strip
> adversaries/motions. I did not even seek compensation for my time preparing the fee
> application as allowed under the local rules. My fee applications included not only
> the compensation requests for the lien stripping adversaries, but also
> compensation for separate 522(f) motions to remove a few judgement liens for
> the respective debtors. Those of course require all the supporting
> documentation of the lien stripping adversaries/motions, plus the recorded abstracts
> of judgment. As the lien holders were insured depository institutions,
> motions had to be served by certified mail at the varying addresses to ensure
> proper service. (i.e. another couple hundred out of pocket for postage and
> photocopies). The fee applications included a detailed narrative explaining
> the nature of the efforts provided and why the separate motions and time> expended were necessary and beneficial to the estate. In addition I provided
> a specified breakdown of effort and time by date and details regarding the
> expenses including advanced court costs for filing amended schedules, for
> obtaining certified copies of the Order granting 522(f) motions and to
> record them with the County. I even provided the separate totals by category
> of expense as required.
>
> Despite the substantially different amounts of time spent on the different
> cases, the addition of prosecuting 522(f) motions to remove multiple
> judgment liens and significant costs advanced in my two cases, the same flat
> $2,000 attorney fees were awarded by Judge Riblet in each case. No extra> compensation was allowed for the several hours of efforts prosecuting the
> 522(f) motions. All of the costs advanced, which exceed $1,000 including court
> fees and recorder fees that I am clearly not supposed to responsible for> under my fee agreement or RARA, were denied without comment.
>
> Obviously we are always subject to the vagaries of each Judge's subjective
> interpretation as to the value of our efforts in such cases. I have had> fees and costs that I believed more than reasonable reduced before, but that
> is a couple hundred here or there. Not pleasant, but not devastating.
> Today's reductions feel devastating. The two orders combined reduced my fee and
> costs reimbursement applications by nearly $4,000, and that was after my> voluntary reductions in the motions. Here I made extra efforts, prosecuted
> 522(f) motions, provided the details in the fee application and was still
> awarded nothing for the effort. I was awarded the same amount of fees as if I
> had made a barely marginal effort, not prosecuted the 522(f) motions, and
> submitted only a one page fee application without breakdown for $2,000. In
> fact I would have more money in my pocket if I would not have advanced all
> the 522(f) motion court costs, recorder fees and postage and copy costs! How
> are we supposed to make a living if we follow the rules by submitting
> reasonable fee applications for necessary motion work on behalf of Chapter 13
> debtors just to see them eviscerated?
>
> What other economically feasible course of action could I have undertaken
> to obtain approval of fees for all of my work and out of pocket costs? As
> diligent as she is, I have difficulty believing Judge Riblet just missed all
> the details regarding the 522(f) motion efforts, court costs and recorder
> fees advanced in two separate fee applications, but would I have been
> better off preparing separate fee applications for the 522(f) motions efforts
> even though they were prosecuted during the same time frame as the lien> stripping adversaries/motions? Instead of filing motion a scream or die motion
> for fees, set it for hearing at the outset and spend a few more
> uncompensated hours commuting to Santa Barbara to wait for and attend the hearing
> hoping my personal appearance and persuasiveness might convince her to deviate
> from her flat $2,000 fee for lien stripping adversaries/motions? I suppose I
> at least would then have a chance to point out 522(f) motions are
> additional motions that should be compensated, but that gamble does not strike me
> as an efficient use of half a day.
>
> Mark Jessee
>

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Worth an appeal?
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
100 E. Thousand Oaks Blvd., Suite 147
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-8125
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805) 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way. Thank you.

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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:38 pm


She routinely cuts everyones supplemental fee applications. My last one
she cut in and it was extremely reasonable and yet she would even give me
postage and photocopying costs.
Stella Havkin
Description: cid:part1.09090707.02070109@yahoo.com
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist The State Bar of California Board of
Legal Specialization
Certified Consumer Bankruptcy Law Specialist The American Board of
Certification

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I sympathize Mark. I recently had my chapter 11 interim fee app summarily
reduced by her for no apparent reason.
Is she close to retirement?
On Aug 24, 2012 2:16 PM, "Mark Jessee" wrote:
> **
>
>
> Colleagues:
>
> I am frankly about as disheartened as I have ever been in 18 years of
> practicing bankruptcy law after receiving orders today on a couple of
> supplemental fee applications I submitted for Northern Division Chapter 13
> cases. I know many of you do not practice Chapter 13 in the hinterlands of
> the Northern Division, but those of you who do, any advice/commiseration is
> welcome.
>
> As you know Judge Riblet is quite diligent, has high standards and
> requires attorneys to abide by the local rules, the FBRP and demands
> motions adhere to the FRE (appraisals supported by detailed authenticating
> declarations, etc.) While I wish she that she would institute changes in
> her hearing procedures that would save a great deal of attorney time, I
> nevertheless respect and appreciate her diligence. As you know she requires
> both adversary complaints to strip the junior trust deeds and motions to
> suspend payments during the course of the plan. Properly prepared, these
> can be lengthy motions with numerous supporting exhibits. Multiple copies
> of the motion and adversary complaint being served at various addresses of
> all the trust deed holders and servicers via certified mail adds up to a
> hefty amount of out of pocket postage and photocopy expense.
>
> Although I have appeared in front of Judge Riblet for years, I have never
> before submitted junior lien stripping fee applications to her before now.
> I extensively researched attorneys appearing before her in Chapter 13 lien
> stripping matters for the lay of the land. Frankly, I was shocked at how
> few (less than 5) of the numerous attorneys I researched actually submitted
> supplemental fee applications for their efforts relating to their lien
> stripping efforts during the last couple years. I wonder if they are
> working for free or just not submitting fee applications? The few attorney
> supplemental fee applications I found were all awarded $2,000, regardless
> of the time expended, regardless of whether they were based upon a one page
> motion stating the attorney and debtor agreed to a flat fee or a detailed
> description of attorney efforts and time expended by date as the local
> rules require. While it looked like Judge Riblet generally awards a flat
> $2,000 for attorney fees relating to junior lien stripping efforts, as it
> was a small number of fee applications I found, I was not certain that was
> always the case.
>
> I submitted a couple fee applications in compliance with LBR 3015-1(v) and
> Appendix IV for two cases that were not simple lien stripping
> adversaries/motions. These two lien stripping cases required extra time
> sorting out some of the facts and obtaining required documents, so frankly
> even on the lien strip adversaries and motions I felt $2,000 compensation
> for my time for quality motions was a bit low, especially with my extensive
> out of pocket costs. Regardless I only sought $2,000 for my time in one
> case and only a few hundred more than that in the other for the lien strip
> adversaries/motions. I did not even seek compensation for my time preparing
> the fee application as allowed under the local rules. My fee applications
> included not only the compensation requests for the lien stripping
> adversaries, but also compensation for separate 522(f) motions to remove a
> few judgement liens for the respective debtors. Those of course require all
> the supporting documentation of the lien stripping adversaries/motions,
> plus the recorded abstracts of judgment. As the lien holders were insured
> depository institutions, motions had to be served by certified mail at the
> varying addresses to ensure proper service. (i.e. another couple hundred
> out of pocket for postage and photocopies). The fee applications included a
> detailed narrative explaining the nature of the efforts provided and why
> the separate motions and time expended were necessary and beneficial to the
> estate. In addition I provided a specified breakdown of effort and time by
> date and details regarding the expenses including advanced court costs for
> filing amended schedules, for obtaining certified copies of the Order
> granting 522(f) motions and to record them with the County. I even
> provided the separate totals by category of expense as required.
>
> Despite the substantially different amounts of time spent on the different
> cases, the addition of prosecuting 522(f) motions to remove multiple
> judgment liens and significant costs advanced in my two cases, the same
> flat $2,000 attorney fees were awarded by Judge Riblet in each case. No
> extra compensation was allowed for the several hours of efforts prosecuting
> the 522(f) motions. All of the costs advanced, which exceed $1,000
> including court fees and recorder fees that I am clearly not supposed to
> responsible for under my fee agreement or RARA, were denied without
> comment.
>
> Obviously we are always subject to the vagaries of each Judge's subjective
> interpretation as to the value of our efforts in such cases. I have had
> fees and costs that I believed more than reasonable reduced before, but
> that is a couple hundred here or there. Not pleasant, but not devastating.
> Today's reductions feel devastating. The two orders combined reduced my fee
> and costs reimbursement applications by nearly $4,000, and that was after
> my voluntary reductions in the motions. Here I made extra efforts,
> prosecuted 522(f) motions, provided the details in the fee application and
> was still awarded nothing for the effort. I was awarded the same amount of
> fees as if I had made a barely marginal effort, not prosecuted the 522(f)
> motions, and submitted only a one page fee application without breakdown
> for $2,000. In fact I would have more money in my pocket if I would not
> have advanced all the 522(f) motion court costs, recorder fees and postage
> and copy costs! How are we supposed to make a living if we follow the rules
> by submitting reasonable fee applications for necessary motion work on
> behalf of Chapter 13 debtors just to see them eviscerated?
>
> What other economically feasible course of action could I have undertaken
> to obtain approval of fees for all of my work and out of pocket costs? As
> diligent as she is, I have difficulty believing Judge Riblet just missed
> all the details regarding the 522(f) motion efforts, court costs and
> recorder fees advanced in two separate fee applications, but would I have
> been better off preparing separate fee applications for the 522(f) motions
> efforts even though they were prosecuted during the same time frame as the
> lien stripping adversaries/motions? Instead of filing motion a scream or
> die motion for fees, set it for hearing at the outset and spend a few more
> uncompensated hours commuting to Santa Barbara to wait for and attend the
> hearing hoping my personal appearance and persuasiveness might convince her
> to deviate from her flat $2,000 fee for lien stripping adversaries/motions?
> I suppose I at least would then have a chance to point out 522(f) motions
> are additional motions that should be compensated, but that gamble does not
> strike me as an efficient use of half a day.
>
> Mark Jessee
>
>
>
I sympathize Mark. I recently had my chapter 11 interim fee app summarily reduced by her for no apparent reason.
Is she close to retirement?
On Aug 24, 2012 2:16 PM, "Mark Jessee" <jesseelaw@aol.com> wrote:
Colleagues:
I am frankly about as disheartened as I have ever been in 18 years of practicing bankruptcy law after receiving orders today on a couple of supplemental fee applications I submitted for Northern Division Chapter 13 cases. I know many of you do not practice Chapter 13 in the hinterlands of the Northern Division, but those of you who do, any advice/commiseration is welcome.
As you know Judge Riblet is quite diligent, has high standards and requires attorneys to abide by the local rules, the FBRP and demands motions adhere to the FRE (appraisals supported by detailed authenticating declarations, etc.) While I wish she that she would institute changes in her hearing procedures that would save a great deal of attorney time, I nevertheless respect and appreciate her diligence. As you know she requires both adversary complaints to strip the junior trust deeds and motions to suspend payments during the course of the plan. Properly prepared, these can be lengthy motions with numerous supporting exhibits. Multiple copies of the motion and adversary complaint being served at various addresses of all the trust deed holders and servicers via certified mail adds up to a hefty amount of out of pocket postage and photocopy expense.
Although I have appeared in front of Judge Riblet for years, I have never before submitted junior lien stripping fee applications to her before now. I extensively researched attorneys appearing before her in Chapter 13 lien stripping matters for the lay of the land. Frankly, I was shocked at how few (less than 5) of the numerous attorneys I researched actually submitted supplemental fee applications for their efforts relating to their lien stripping efforts during the last couple years. I wonder if they are working for free or just not submitting fee applications? The few attorney supplemental fee applications I found were all awarded $2,000, regardless of the time expended, regardless of whether they were based upon a one page motion stating the attorney and debtor agreed to a flat fee or a detailed description of attorney efforts and time expended by date as the local rules require. While it looked like Judge Riblet generally awards a flat $2,000 for attorney fees relating to junior lien stripping efforts, as it was a small number of fee applications I found, I was not certain that was always the case.
I submitted a couple fee applications in compliance with LBR 3015-1(v) and Appendix IV for two cases that were not simple lien stripping adversaries/motions. These two lien stripping cases required extra time sorting out some of the facts and obtaining required documents, so frankly even on the lien strip adversaries and motions I felt $2,000 compensation for my time for quality motions was a bit low, especially with my extensive out of pocket costs. Regardless I only sought $2,000 for my time in one case and only a few hundred more than that in the other for the lien strip adversaries/motions. I did not even seek compensation for my time preparing the fee application as allowed under the local rules. My fee applications included not only the compensation requests for the lien stripping adversaries, but also compensation for separate 522(f) motions to remove a few judgement liens for the respective debtors. Those of course require all the supporting documentation of the lien stripping adversaries/motions, plus the recorded abstracts of judgment. As the lien holders were insured depository institutions, motions had to be served by certified mail at the varying addresses to ensure proper service. (i.e. another couple hundred out of pocket for postage and photocopies). The fee applications included a detailed narrative explaining the nature of the efforts provided and why the separate motions and time expended were necessary and beneficial to the estate. In addition I provided a specified breakdown of effort and time by date and details regarding the expenses including advanced court costs for filing amended schedules, for obtaining certified copies of the Order granting 522(f) motions and to record them with the County. I even provided the separate totals by category of expense as required.
Despite the substantially different amounts of time spent on the different cases, the addition of prosecuting 522(f) motions to remove multiple judgment liens and significant costs advanced in my two cases, the same flat $2,000 attorney fees were awarded by Judge Riblet in each case. No extra compensation was allowed for the several hours of efforts prosecuting the 522(f) motions. All of the costs advanced, which exceed $1,000 including court fees and recorder fees that I am clearly not supposed to responsible for under my fee agreement or RARA, were denied without comment.
Obviously we are always subject to the vagaries of each Judge's subjective interpretation as to the value of our efforts in such cases. I have had fees and costs that I believed more than reasonable reduced before, but that is a couple hundred here or there. Not pleasant, but not devastating. Today's reductions feel devastating. The two orders combined reduced my fee and costs reimbursement applications by nearly $4,000, and that was after my voluntary reductions in the motions. Here I made extra efforts, prosecuted 522(f) motions, provided the details in the fee application and was still awarded nothing for the effort. I was awarded the same amount of fees as if I had made a barely marginal effort, not prosecuted the 522(f) motions, and submitted only a one page fee application without breakdown for $2,000. In fact I would have more money in my pocket if I would not have advanced all the 522(f) motion court costs, recorder fees and postage and copy costs! How are we supposed to make a living if we follow the rules by submitting reasonable fee applications for necessary motion work on behalf of Chapter 13 debtors just to see them eviscerated?
What other economically feasible course of action could I have undertaken to obtain approval of fees for all of my work and out of pocket costs? As diligent as she is, I have difficulty believing Judge Riblet just missed all the details regarding the 522(f) motion efforts, court costs and recorder fees advanced in two separate fee applications, but would I have been better off preparing separate fee applications for the 522(f) motions efforts even though they were prosecuted during the same time frame as the lien stripping adversaries/motions? Instead of filing motion a scream or die motion for fees, set it for hearing at the outset and spend a few more uncompensated hours commuting to Santa Barbara to wait for and attend the hearing hoping my personal appearance and persuasiveness might convince her to deviate from her flat $2,000 fee for lien stripping adversaries/motions? I suppose I at least would then have a chance to point out 522(f) motions are additional motions that should be compensated, but that gamble does not strike me as an efficient use of half a day.
Mark Jessee

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Colleagues:
I am frankly about as disheartened as I have ever been in 18 years of practicing bankruptcy law after receiving orders today on a couple of supplemental fee applications I submitted for Northern Division Chapter 13 cases. I know many of you do not practice Chapter 13 in the hinterlands of the Northern Division, but those of you who do, any advice/commiseration is welcome.
As you know Judge Riblet is quite diligent, has high standards and requires attorneys to abide by the local rules, the FBRP and demands motions adhere to the FRE (appraisals supported by detailed authenticating declarations, etc.) While I wish she that she would institute changes in her hearing procedures that would save a great deal of attorney time, I nevertheless respect and appreciate her diligence. As you know she requires both adversary complaints to strip the junior trust deeds and motions to suspend payments during the course of the plan. Properly prepared, these can be lengthy motions with numerous supporting exhibits. Multiple copies of the motion and adversary complaint being served at various addresses of all the trust deed holders and servicers via certified mail adds up to a hefty amount of out of pocket postage and photocopy expense.
Although I have appeared in front of Judge Riblet for years, I have never before submitted junior lien stripping fee applications to her before now. I extensively researched attorneys appearing before her in Chapter 13 lien stripping matters for the lay of the land. Frankly, I was shocked at how few (less than 5) of the numerous attorneys I researched actually submitted supplemental fee applications for their efforts relating to their lien stripping efforts during the last couple years. I wonder if they are working for free or just not submitting fee applications? The few attorney supplemental fee applications I found were all awarded $2,000, regardless of the time expended, regardless of whether they were based upon a one page motion stating the attorney and debtor agreed to a flat fee or a detailed description of attorney efforts and time expended by date as the local rules require. While it looked like Judge Riblet generally awards a flat $2,000 for attorney fees relating to junior lien stripping efforts, as it was a small number of fee applications I found, I was not certain that was always the case.
I submitted a couple fee applications in compliance with LBR 3015-1(v) and Appendix IV for two cases that were not simple lien stripping adversaries/motions. These two lien stripping cases required extra time sorting out some of the facts and obtaining required documents, so frankly even on the lien strip adversaries and motions I felt $2,000 compensation for my time for quality motions was a bit low, especially with my extensive out of pocket costs. Regardless I only sought $2,000 for my time in one case and only a few hundred more than that in the other for the lien strip adversaries/motions. I did not even seek compensation for my time preparing the fee application as allowed under the local rules. My fee applications included not only the compensation requests for the lien stripping adversaries, but also compensation for separate 522(f) motions to remove a few judgement liens for the respective debtors. Those of course require all the supporting documentation of the lien stripping adversaries/motions, plus the recorded abstracts of judgment. As the lien holders were insured depository institutions, motions had to be served by certified mail at the varying addresses to ensure proper service. (i.e. another couple hundred out of pocket for postage and photocopies). The fee applications included a detailed narrative explaining the nature of the efforts provided and why the separate motions and time expended were necessary and beneficial to the estate. In addition I provided a specified breakdown of effort and time by date and details regarding the expenses including advanced court costs for filing amended schedules, for obtaining certified copies of the Order granting 522(f) motions and to record them with the County. I even provided the separate totals by category of expense as required.
Despite the substantially different amounts of time spent on the different cases, the addition of prosecuting 522(f) motions to remove multiple judgment liens and significant costs advanced in my two cases, the same flat $2,000 attorney fees were awarded by Judge Riblet in each case. No extra compensation was allowed for the several hours of efforts prosecuting the 522(f) motions. All of the costs advanced, which exceed $1,000 including court fees and recorder fees that I am clearly not supposed to responsible for under my fee agreement or RARA, were denied without comment.
Obviously we are always subject to the vagaries of each Judge's subjective interpretation as to the value of our efforts in such cases. I have had fees and costs that I believed more than reasonable reduced before, but that is a couple hundred here or there. Not pleasant, but not devastating. Today's reductions feel devastating. The two orders combined reduced my fee and costs reimbursement applications by nearly $4,000, and that was after my voluntary reductions in the motions. Here I made extra efforts, prosecuted 522(f) motions, provided the details in the fee application and was still awarded nothing for the effort. I was awarded the same amount of fees as if I had made a barely marginal effort, not prosecuted the 522(f) motions, and submitted only a one page fee application without breakdown for $2,000. In fact I would have more money in my pocket if I would not have advanced all the 522(f) motion court costs, recorder fees and postage and copy costs! How are we supposed to make a living if we follow the rules by submitting reasonable fee applications for necessary motion work on behalf of Chapter 13 debtors just to see them eviscerated?
What other economically feasible course of action could I have undertaken to obtain approval of fees for all of my work and out of pocket costs? As diligent as she is, I have difficulty believing Judge Riblet just missed all the details regarding the 522(f) motion efforts, court costs and recorder fees advanced in two separate fee applications, but would I have been better off preparing separate fee applications for the 522(f) motions efforts even though they were prosecuted during the same time frame as the lien stripping adversaries/motions? Instead of filing motion a scream or die motion for fees, set it for hearing at the outset and spend a few more uncompensated hours commuting to Santa Barbara to wait for and attend the hearing hoping my personal appearance and persuasiveness might convince her to deviate from her flat $2,000 fee for lien stripping adversaries/motions? I suppose I at least would then have a chance to point out 522(f) motions are additional motions that should be compensated, but that gamble does not strike me as an efficient use of half a day.
Mark Jessee

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