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Question re funds due back to client when they change
I love that X-Ray analogy. That's so funny. I will bet you though, that
doctors have had patients ask for their money back when the X-Ray comes
back negative under the theory that they didn't really need it (see,
negative!).
Holly Roark
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
holly@roarklawoffices.com **primary email address**
www.roarklawoffices.com
Central District of California
Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney
1875 Century Park East, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA 90067
T (310) 553-2600
F (310) 553-2601
*By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
**For a quicker response, email me at holly@roarklawoffices.com.
I only use gmail for my listservs, and am likely to miss private emails
directed to my gmail account.**
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Hale Andrew Antico wrote:
>
>
> It's only odd when you can go a stretch of time where this DOESN'T
> happen. While "no refunds" clauses are handy, they don't deter debtors
> desperate for dough. They know they gave you some and there's been no
> filing yet. Strangely, these same same people have no problem paying for an
> x-ray that came back negative and surgery is avoided. Anyway, pound the
> contract (no refunds), then pound the fairness (accounting for your time
> and oh look, I earned all my money over two years so again, no refund and
> in fact, you owe me), then out of the kindness of your heart, I'm not going
> to collect the balance you owe me, and lookie here's some not-a-refund cash
> because I'm a super nice person and okaybye.
>
> Hale
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Holly Roark
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2014 3:59 AM
> *To:* Strictly Bankruptcy Issues; cdcbaa
>
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Question re funds due back to client when they change
> their mind?
>
>
>
> I have a case where clients hired me TWO years ago. It took them the
> entire time to pay me in full, little by little, the $2,000 attorney fee
> plus filing fee and credit report fee. I didn't have it in my retainer
> that we need to file in 6 months or I keep the funds, but it's something I
> am considering including.
>
> Anyway, for 2 years I took creditor calls. Then when they were
> finally ready to file, I prepared the petition. Then it turned out that
> after 2 years their house now has too much equity for a chapter 7. They
> don't want to do a 13. I got the email today; we will be handling this
> ourselves and no longer need your services. Please return our paperwork and
> the funds due back.
>
> Well, I don't want a bar complaint so I probably should give them
> something back in addition to the filing fee, but I know I've well earned
> my fee.
>
> How do you recommend handling this?
>
>
>
> --
> Holly Roark
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
> holly@roarklawoffices.com **primary email address**
> www.roarklawoffices.com
> Central District of California
> Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney
> 1875 Century Park East, Suite 600
> Los Angeles, CA 90067
> T (310) 553-2600
> F (310) 553-2601
>
> *By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
>
>
> **For a quicker response, email me at holly@roarklawoffices.com.
> I only use gmail for my listservs, and am likely to miss private emails
> directed to my gmail account.**
>
>
>
>
I love that X-Ray analogy. That's so funny. I will bet you though, that doctors have had patients ask for their money back when the X-Ray comes back negative under the theory that they didn't really need it (see, negative!).
Holly RoarkCertified Bankruptcy Specialist*
holly@roarklawoffices.com **primary email address**
www.roarklawoffices.com
Central District of California
Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney
1875 Century Park East, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA 90067
T (310) 553-2600
F (310) 553-2601
*By State Bar of California Board of Legal
Specialization
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Dear Holly,
Welcome to the club. My retainer agreement has grown over the years in response to client behavior. If you don't already have language similar to the following in your retainer, you may wish to consider including it:
You may make payments rather than paying the entire $XXX at once. $XXX of the $XXX retainer fee covers the initial consultation and the document preparation portion of the services. Therefore, once the documents have been prepared, the $XXX will be deemed to have been earned, and will not be refunded in the event that you decide not to file for a Chapter X bankruptcy. If you terminate our representation of you before all of the documents have been completed, then you agree to compensate the law offices - on a quantum meruit basis - for the already completed services at the rate of $XXX per hour.
. . .
This agreement has a six-month window in the following sense: if you have not filed your Chapter X bankruptcy papers within six months of the date of this engagement letter, we will close your case, bill you on a quantum meruit basis at the hourly rate of $XXX for work already completed, and refund any unearned fees. If at that point you wish to retain the law offices to represent you, a new engagement letter and retainer fee will be required.
As for your current case, write a closing of the case letter with one of the following - depending on whether or not you elect to return any money:
According to my records, as detailed above, I spent a total of XXX hours and XXX minutes with you, for which you paid me $XXX. At the agreed upon rate of $XXX per hour I have earned $XXX ( $XXX/hour XXX hours). Therefore, I am entitled to an additional $XXX ( $XXX - $XXX). However, I am willing to waive the additional charge. Consequently, I am closing your case with a zero balance.
As stated above, according to our records, we spent a total of XXX hours and XXX minutes in consultation and document preparation on your case. Therefore, your total obligation to us is $XXX ( $XXX XXX). Since you have already paid $XXX, we owe you $XXX ( $XXX - $XXX). Therefore, I have enclosed a check in the amount of $XXX and am closing your case with a zero balance.
Include a detailed accounting of the work you did both during your meetings with the clients, and apart from the time you spent with the clients (e.g., dealing with creditors' phone calls, reviewing documents, etc.).
Good luck,
Nick
Nicholas Gebelt
Nicholas Gebelt, Ph.D., J.D.
Attorney at Law
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist
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The post was migrated from Yahoo.