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Does prepetition IRS lien become attached=20
Dear Members;
Jeff and D have raised excellent points which in my mind raise further
issues.
Section 524 does seem to have an affect on after acquired property.
The legal effect of the bankruptcy discharge is to convert the judgment
into a non-recourse secured debt which can only be enforced against the real
property affected by the judgment lien.
But what effect does 541(a)(2) regarding community property of the estatehave on section 524?
The question pertains to $10000 of property listed on schedule B. The
lien attaches
to all the taxpayer's property at the time it arises even if it is exempt. So there would be a lien
on the TP's property but I cannot remember if the lien survives even if it is not perfected by a filing
in the SOS office.
Robert Suhajda
In a message dated 1/20/2013 6:36:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
cdcbaamailbox@gmail.com writes:
Jeff is correct, but he is using bk insider language. A stale tax debt
has passed all tests for dischargeability, the four tests are, the three year, two year, 240 day, and still assessable tests. All four tests must be
passed for a tax to be stale, and therefore discharged.
D
"Jeffrey S. Shinbrot" wrote:
>But not after acquired property for a stale income tax debt (secured
pre-Petition by lien), that was discharged, doesnt Section 524 prevent that
as to stale tax debt ?
>
>
>And again generally speaking even property acquired by the taxpayer afterthe lien has come into existence.
>
>
>
robert90701@aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:09 AM
>To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Does prepetition IRS lien become attached
post-discharge only to...
>
>
>
>
>Generally speaking Yes, with one exception, no property or rights to
property belonging to the taxpayer is exempt from attachment of the federal tax
lien except as follows. Treas. Reg. 301.6321-1 provides "... any
interest in restricted land held in trust by the United States for an individual
noncompetent Indian (and not for a tribe) shall not be deemed to be
property, or a right to property, belonging to such Indian."
>
>And again generally speaking even property acquired by the taxpayer afterthe lien has come into existence.
>
>
>
>Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
>17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
>Artesia, CA 90701
>562-924-8922
>
>
>In a message dated 1/16/2013 9:42:16 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
kirkinhermosa@gmail.com writes:
>
>
>The lein attaches even if the schedule B assets were exempt?
>On Jan 15, 2013 1:48 PM, "Dennis McG"
wrote:
>
>
>
>On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Alik Segal
wrote:
>
>Mates,
>
>I am sure this has come up before, but I cannot come up with the right
key words to find it.
>
>After IRS files a lien, the debtor files bankruptcy and receives a
discharge. All tax debts were dischargeable. The personal property os Schedule B
was worth a total of $10,000.
>
>1. Does the IRS have a lien on those specific items listed in schedule B?
>yes
>2. Does the IRS lien attach to new property acquired after discharge
including wages and bank accounts?
>no
>3. Does the total amount owed at discharge (total value on schedule B)remain the same except for interest?
>yes
>
>Alik
>
>You can call and ask the IRS what amount they want to collect to abate
the lien. They will tell you. Client pays, lien gone.
>
>Or, you can file a 13 and pay the 10k in a plan. put in misc provisionslien is void after plan is paid.
>
>dennis
>
>
>
>
But not after acquired property for a stale income tax debt (secured
pre-Petition by lien), that was discharged, doesnt Section 524 prevent that
as to stale tax debt ?
And again generally speaking even property acquired by the taxpayer afterthe lien has come into existence.
robert90701@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:09 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Does prepetition IRS lien become attached
post-discharge only to...
Generally speaking Yes, with one exception, no property or rights to
property belonging to the taxpayer is exempt from attachment of the federal tax
lien except as follows. Treas. Reg. 301.6321-1 provides "... any interest
in restricted land held in trust by the United States for an individual
noncompetent Indian (and not for a tribe) shall not be deemed to be property,
or a right to property, belonging to such Indian."
And again generally speaking even property acquired by the taxpayer afterthe lien has come into existence.
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
In a message dated 1/16/2013 9:42:16 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
_kirkinhermosa@gmail.com_ (mailto:kirkinhermosa@gmail.com) writes:
The lein attaches even if the schedule B assets were exempt?
On Jan 15, 2013 1:48 PM, "Dennis McG" wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Alik Segal wrote:
Mates,
I am sure this has come up before, but I cannot come up with the right keywords to find it.
After IRS files a lien, the debtor files bankruptcy and receives a
discharge. All tax debts were dischargeable. The personal property os Schedule B
was worth a total of $10,000.
1. Does the IRS have a lien on those specific items listed in schedule
B?
yes
2. Does the IRS lien attach to new property acquired after discharge including wages and bank accounts?
no
3. Does the total amount owed at discharge (total value on schedule B)remain the same except for interest?
yes
Alik
You can call and ask the IRS what amount they want to collect to abate thelien. They will tell you. Client pays, lien gone.
Or, you can file a 13 and pay the 10k in a plan. put in misc provisions
lien is void after plan is paid.
dennis
Dear Members;
Jeff and D have raised excellent points which in my mind raise furtherissues.
Section 524 does seem to have an affect on after acquired property.
The
legal effect of the bankruptcy discharge is to convert the judgment into anon-recourse secured debt which can only be enforced against the real property
affected by the judgment lien.
But what effect does 541(a)(2) regarding community property of
the estate have on section 524?
The question pertains to $10000 of property listed on schedule
B. The lien attaches
to all the taxpayer's property at the time it arises even if it is
exempt. So there would be a lien
on the TP's property but I cannot remember if the lien survives even if it
is not perfected by a filing
in the SOS office.
Robert Suhajda
In a message dated 1/20/2013 6:36:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
cdcbaamailbox@gmail.com writes:
Jeff is correct, but he is using bk insider language. A stale tax
debt has passed all tests for dischargeability, the four tests are, the three
year, two year, 240 day, and still assessable tests. All
four tests must be passed for a tax to be stale, and therefore
discharged.
D
"Jeffrey S. Shinbrot" <jeffrey@shinbrotfirm.com> wrote:
>But not after acquired property for a stale income tax debt (secured pre-Petition by lien), that was discharged, doesnt
Section 524 prevent that as to stale tax debt
?>>>And again generally speaking even property acquired
by the taxpayer after the lien has come into
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robert90701@aol.com>Sent:
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:09 AM>To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Does prepetition IRS lien
become attached post-discharge only
to...>>>>>Generally speaking Yes, with one
exception, no property or rights to property belonging to the taxpayer is exempt from attachment of the federal tax lien except as follows. Treas. Reg.
301.6321-1 provides "... any interest in restricted land held in trust by
the United States for an individual noncompetent Indian (and not for a tribe)
shall not be deemed to be property, or a right to property, belonging to such
Indian.">>And again generally speaking even property acquired by
the taxpayer after the lien has come into
existence.>>>>Robert J. Suhajda,
MS,CPA>17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43>Artesia, CA
90701>562-924-8922>>>In a message dated 1/16/2013
9:42:16 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
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