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Means Test for Teacher who is employed 8 months
I prefer the method of filing a "correct" means test form, and then an
explanatory declaration (or explanation letter) as David suggested. I
think filing two means test forms is confusing, unnecessary and has the
potential to create additional problems.
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means at http://bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/2008/0 ... efinition/)
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On 5/19/2010 10:58 AM, Holly Roark wrote:
>
>
> If you were to file the TWO Form 22's (one with the actual 6 month
> period, and one with the income amortized over 12 months), when you
> file the case online, do you indicate that there IS a presumption of
> abuse, or that there's NOT a presumption of abuse, since on one of the
> forms there is, and on the other there's not? My thought is that you
> would indicate there IS a presumption of abuse but that you are
> rebutting it with the second means test and with a letter to the UST.
> Thoughts?
> Holly Roark
> holly@roarklawoffices.com
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 8:33 AM, David A. Tilem
> wrote:
>
> Holly:
> I can't really remember where we filed the cases, but we have
> never had a problem providing MORE than sufficient information.
> *David A. Tilem*
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist**^*+ **
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
> 206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
> Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
> * Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
> Specialization.
> + Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of Certification
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com ]
> *On Behalf Of *Holly Roark
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 18, 2010 8:13 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Means Test for Teacher who is employed
> 8 months out of the year
>
> David, have you done either of the two approaches you suggest (in
> downtown), and if so, how did it work out? I am having this
> issue come up more and more and sometimes it's just not feasible
> to wait it out to file, so I need to do something. Does an
> explanatory letter to the UST really suffice if you file it as a
> presumption of abuse?
> Holly Roark
> holly@roarklawoffices.com
> CDCA
>
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 6:47 PM, David A. Tilem
> wrote:
>
> Teacher income:
> Do 2 means test forms. The first one should be "straight",
> i.e. use whatever they actually earned in the prior 6 months.
> The second one can be amortized over 12 months. The other
> alternative to a 2nd means test is to include sufficient
> explanation so the USTE understands that this is a teacher
> with a 10 month paycheck. I suspect either solution will work.
> *David A. Tilem*
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist**^*+ **
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
> 206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
> Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
> * Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
> Specialization.
> + Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of
> Certification
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 15, 2010 2:54 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Re: Means Test for Teacher who is employed
> 8 months out of the year
>
> By Golly I have the EXACT same situation with a teacher who is
> earning a paycheck 10 months out of the year.
>
> I have advised the client to wait until the end of summer to
> file.
>
> I plan on using the last 6 months of actual income (which will
> be 4 months of income and 2 months without) for the means test.
>
> My client passes under these numbers.
>
> For me, the question is the Schedule J amount! I am not sure
> what to put in there. I am guessing taking the salaried amount
> earned per year and then dividing that by 12.
>
> --- In cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> , Catherine Christiansen
> wrote:
> >
> > In Riverside, the Chapter 13 Trustee takes year to date and
> divides by the number of months to calculate the income and
> then runs that through the B-22 test.A-
> >
> > Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
> > 1077 E Pacific Coast Hwy #210
> > Seal Beach, CA, 90740
> > Tel: (562) 361-8721
> > Fax: (562) 490-8572
> > attorneychristiansen@... e-mail is private and confidential
> and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or otherwise
> identified herein. A- If you are not named or otherwise
> identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail
> message and any copies thereof and immediately notify
> Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by telephone
> (562)608-8368.A- A- Representation Note:A- If you have not
> signed a contract of representation, Christiansen Law Offices
> does not represent you, and this email does not contain
> anyA- legal adviceA- for you.A- NOTICE:A- We are a federally
> designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
> Bankruptcy Laws.A- We assist people with finding solutions to
> their debt problems,including filing petitions for relief
> under the Bankruptcy Code
> >
> > --- On Wed, 4/14/10, Jim Selth wrote:
> >
> > Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Means Test for Teacher who is employed
> 8 months out of the year
> > To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> " >
> > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 4:13 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I
> > do not think that's allowed when completing the B22 form.A-
> I believe you must
>
> > include the actual income received in each of the six prior
> months before the
> > case is filed.
> >
> > A-
> >
> > James R. Selth
> >
> > Weintraub & Selth, APC
> >
> > 12121 Wilshire Boulevard,
> > Suite 1300
> >
> > Los Angeles, CaliforniaA-
> > 90025
> >
> > Telephone:A- A- A- (310)
> > 207-1494
> >
> > Facsimile:A- A- A- A- (310)
> > 442-0660
> >
> > E-Mail:A- A- A- A- A- A- A- A- A- jim@...
> >
> > A-
> >
> > NOTICE TO RECIPIENT:A- THIS
>
> > E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF THE
> TRANSMISSION AND THIS
> > COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY LAW.A- IF YOU
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> YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR
>
> > COOPERATION.
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> > [mailto:cdcbaa@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
> Of Catherine Christiansen
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:09 PM
> >
> > To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups. com
> >
> > Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Means Test for Teacher who is employed
> 8 months
> > out of the year
> >
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been taking the
> > average income.A- Multiplying the monthly by 10 and
> dividing by 12 and
> > using 6 months of those figures on the B-22.A- A- Anyone
> experiencing
>
> > a problem with that approach on other cases they have filed
> with school
> > teachers?
> >
> >
> > Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
> >
> > 1077 E Pacific Coast Hwy #210
> >
> > Seal Beach, CA, 90740
> >
> > Tel: (562) 361-8721
> >
> > Fax: (562) 490-8572
> >
> > attorneychristianse n@gmail.com
> > This e-mail is private and confidential
> > and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or
> otherwise identified
> > herein. A- If you are not named or otherwise identified as
> an intended
> > recipient, please delete this e-mail message and any copies
> thereof and
> > immediately notify Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by
> telephone
> > (562)608-8368.A- A- Representation Note:A- If you have not
> signed
>
> > a contract of representation, Christiansen Law Offices does
> not represent
> > you, and this email does not contain anyA- legal adviceA- for
> > you.A- NOTICE:A- We are a federally designated Debt Relief
> Agency
> > under the United States Bankruptcy Laws.A- We assist people
> with finding
>
> > solutions to their debt problems,including filing petitions
> for relief under
> > the Bankruptcy Code
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 4/14/10, Law Offices of Jonathan Leventhal
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Means Test for Teacher who is employed
> 8 months out of
> > the year
> >
> > To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups. com
> >
> > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 2:12 PM
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> > Also note the fact that in the
> > near future the income will be zero.
> > A-
> >
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> >
> > A-
> > Jonathan
> > D. Leventhal, Esq.
> > This
> > email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
> confidential, and
> > privileged material for the sole use of the intended
> recipient. Any review, copying,
> > or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto)
> by others is
> > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please contact
> > the sender immediately and permanently delete the original
> and any copies of
> > this email and any attachments thereto.
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> > [mailto:cdcbaa@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
> Of Henry Toles
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:43 PM
> >
> > To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups. com
> >
> > Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Means Test for Teacher who is employed
> 8 months
> > out of the year
> >
> >
> > A-
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Wait
> > two more months and then file
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [mailto:cdcbaa@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
> Of Donny Brand
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:42 PM
> >
> > To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups. com
> >
> > Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Means Test for Teacher who is employed
> 8 months
> > out of the year
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> > A-
> > I have the same deal going on
> > in one of my cases right now.
> > A-
> > My thoughts are a-EUR" no a-EUR" you
> > cannot do that.A- The means test deals with the 6 months
> beginning with
> > the month preceding the month of filing backwards.A- The
> legislature must
>
> > have known this is going to produce absurd results in many,
> many cases.
> > A-
> > I think the appropriate way of
> > dealing with it is to file the means test with a presumption
> of abuse a-EUR" and
> > then rebut the presumption if need be.A- Hopefully, OUST
> will simply
>
> > decline to file a motion to dismiss based upon all the facts
> in your case.
> > A-
> > Is anyone else doing it any
> > other way?A-
> > A-
> > Particularly any of our
> > members who have been practicing since the Nelson Act?A- ;-)A-
> > (Sorrya-EURjust following in the spirits of some of the
> other posts today!)
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > A-
> > Donny Brand
> >
> > Brand
> > & Spellman PC
> > 3836
> > E. Anaheim St.
> > Long
> > Beach, CA 90804
> > 562-438-7500
> > 888-99-BKRPT
> > (888-992-5778)
> > www.brandspellman. com
> > A-
> > ------------
> > --------
> > This
> > message originates from the law firm of Brand & Spellman PC
> and may
> > contain legally privileged and confidential information
> intended solely for
> > the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended
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> > received this message in error, please notify us at
> info@brandspellman.
> > com and delete this email from your system. Any unauthorized
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> > distribution, copying, or other use of this email or its
> attachments is
> > strictly prohibited.
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> > [mailto:cdcbaa@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
> Of Philomena Nzegge
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:27 PM
> >
> > To: Bankruptcy Attorneys
> >
> > Subject: [cdcbaa] Means Test for Teacher who is employed 8
> months out
> > of the year
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Debtor is a Substitute Teacher whoA- worksA- for 8
> > monthsA- andA- gets no income for the remainder 4 months. He
> > works long hours to save for theA- 4A- months.A-
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> > If I use his incomeA- for theA- past 6 months his
> > fails the means test.
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> > If I useA- his income for the past 4 months and add 2
>
> > months of no income he will pass the means test.
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> > Can I do that?????
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> > Thank
> >
> > A-
> >
> > Philomena Nzegge, Esq.
> > Law Office of Philomena
> > N. Nzegge
> > 3701 Wilshire Blvd
> > Suite 1120
> > Los Angeles, CA 90010
> > (213) 739-0650A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A-
> > A-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A-
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Holly Roark
> holly@roarklawoffices.com
> www.roarklawoffices.com
> Central District of California
> Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney
>
>
>
>
> --
> Holly Roark
> holly@roarklawoffices.com
> www.roarklawoffices.com
> Central District of California
> Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney
>
>
>
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